What decoder do I need?

ebay mike

ebay mike

Retired, but still hoarding. (GOF)
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I am slowly moving over to the dark side using the 55005p, 55015p and 55016p units I bought secondhand last year. So far I have only purchased locos that are already DCC equipped - 22871 Mikado and 70685 Orient Express set. I have a (very) large number of analogue locos so still wish to maintain that capability. The 2 I have running successfully happily work on either. My questions are:
1 is there a list of which decoder is suitable for what loco?
2 do all decoders still permit the loco to operate on analog?
3 much of what us on offer now appears to be Massoth branded. Will this work with my LGB equipment?
4 can LGB decoders be fitted to Piko, Bachmann, Aristocraft etc without too much difficulty?
5 are there any pitfalls I should be aware of?
6 has anyone out there got any cheapies?

The locos I have range from the Otto/Stainz through to Aristo's class 66.
 
Sheesh Mike!
A bit like asking 'what car should I buy?'.. ;)

Quick answers.. You will get a lot more information from others, no doubt!

1. Not really.. It also depends whether you want sound as well..
2. It depends.. Short answer is 'yes'. BUT analogue running can be turned off in the decoder. - Normally have to do this if a power buffer is fitted.
3.Yes.
4. If by 'LGB decoders' you mean Massoth, then yes, they can be fitted.. How 'easy' this is depends on the make, age, complexity of the loco and what it does.. It also depends a great deal on your competence with a soldering iron, and a little understanding of electronics!
5. Yes, so if you ask before attacking a model, we will point them out. - There will also always be more than one way of doing things!!
6. You might get the odd 'bargain', and there will be people on her willing to help out no doubt.. Beware of the older 55020 decoder. - I would personally not use this, unless I was replacing a failed one, and the owner wanted 'like-for-like'.

Many LGB loco's will have the provision to plug-in a basic motor decoder.
New Marklin/LGB models will either come with decoders, or (where new tooling is used) have a socket for their new decoder offering. - Massoth (and others) now offer decoders to fit this interface as well.
 
One tip, Mike: any LGB loco that has the round silver sticker that says "direct decoder" on it is designed for a simple plug-in fit of an LGB 55020 (now obsolete as PhilP mentioned above) or a 55021; a Massoth "L" decoder is a direct replacement for the LGB 55020/55021, and the Massoth one is both more sophisticated AND cheaper! If you're buying your decoders new, go for the "L" for any single-motored LGB locos.

Remember that until the recent change to MFX decoders, Massoth pretty much made (or at least designed) all the decoders that LGB used, apart from the earliest of the old 55020 which was made by Lenz.

Ignoring the sound decoders (because you haven't mentioned that you want sound), you have the Massoth M, L, XL and XXL; the M is a tiny decoder for use in the Feldbahn locos (though it will still handle about 1.2 amps, so it is possible to use one in something like a Stainz too), the L is a versatile decoder with a 1.8 amp capacity for most single-motor locos (though you can use a pair in a twin-motor), the XL is a 3-amp for LGB twin-motor locos, and the XXL for big locos from other brands that are especially power-hungry (eg: big USAT diesels).

Jon.
 
Thanks Jon and Phil. Gives me a bit of any insight. My plan is for sound capabilities in all locos eventually. I have a few of the Lgb sound units (65000 types) in 'stock' and have already fitted one into the Mikado. My solder skills are not great - more akin to plumbing type. I currently have around 150 locos but plan to trim to less than twenty. Also a glut of rolling stock, track etc hence the planned sales stand at Bressingham later in the month.
 
Just a note re the soldering - for the vast majority of installations, you will NOT need to do "electronics level" soldering - in almost all cases you will not need to solder anything actually to the decoder itself. The small solder pads that Arthur mentions on the M decoder are only needed if you want to fit extra functions such as a power buffer, lights or electric couplers that the feldbahn locos do not have as standard. The simple installation of the decoder to drive the loco is nothing more than plugging in four wires. On the larger decoders (the XL and XXL) all the connections that you will need for normal uses are via screw terminals. The L decoder either plugs directly to the loco board, or else is connected (like the M) with just four push-on wires. Even if you go to the sound decoders (the S, LS or XLS) it's mostly a matter of plugging things in.

The only soldering you will normally need to do is when splicing wires together, and (in the case of older locos) occasionally soldering wires directly to motor terminals; you shouldn't need to go anywhere near a decoder with your soldering iron!

I can solder well enough to do these basics, but I'm no expert, if you can similarly do just the simple stuff then you'll be fine.

Jon.
 
ebay mike said:
The locos I have range from the Otto/Stainz through to Aristo's class 66.
Click to expand...

For the Aristo 66 I'd say the obvious plug-n-play decoder is a Digitrax DG583AR which fits the socket. This isn't a sound decoder, it may not control all the lighting options through that main socket though you should have control of headlights. (there were issues with the lighting due to the microcontroller on the 66's main board, I bypassed this and wired lights to the decoder's auxiliary socket)

Are you running 14 or 28 speed steps with your MTS equipment? I'm not entirely sure off the top of my head if the DG583AR supports 14 steps (would need to look that up).
 
There are other methods for the '66..
Funnily enough, I have several boards that have come OUT of 66's I did work on a while back.. Consists of a Massoth XXL and a bit of strip-board with a relay on it.. - Less wiring changes to the 66 circuit board.
These are now surplus to requirements, as the owner has gone battery r/c.
They have kept the Phoenix soundcards though.
 
Welcome to the dark side Mike.
I have been on it for a few years now BUT still have the 'BIG SWITCH' that allows me to change over to DC analogue TE analogue operation on each section of my layout as I have not DCC-ed all my locos.
I have mainly ESU decoders, with a few QSI, a couple of Digitrax and a few Massoth

I have managed, over a year or so, to get hold of a load of used ESU Loksound XL V3.2 to 3.5 cards on ebay (German) for an average of £50 to £60 each.
I even got three of the new V4 variety for only about £90 as someone was going over to battery.
The ESU boards have great selection of sounds (which can be downloaded using their programmer), they have good amperage handling and have a good amount of AUX outputs for things like firebox flicker, auto couplings etc.
You can also build your own sounds and upload them onto the decoder using the programmer.
And also they have a very good support service.

I have a Class 66 that has a ESU loksound XL v3.5 and it handles the interesting lighting with aplomb. The sound is also amazing, it has a complete automatic start-up that protypically synchronises movement to the sound and lighting sequence.

Knowing your penchant for trawling Fleabay, if you fancy the ESU, I would set up a search for ESU loksound (that way you get the smaller and cheaper non-XL variety).
If you only want motor control and no sound then the ESU Lokpilot is the one to go for (again either in plain form or the higher power XL)
 
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