Umbaus

pugwash

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Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.
 

bunnyrabbit03

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pugwash said:
Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.

Yes, they come with both standard gauge and single buffers. You can swap them as required, the same as the locos.
 

pugwash

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Cheers :clap:
So guess who's going to flex his Mastercard then? :cool:
 

Aljosha

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pugwash said:
Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.
I travelled in them Umbau's to school/college for several years (DB). Have trouble imagining them with centre buffer... (and close coupling...)
 

Spule 4

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Aljosha said:
pugwash said:
Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.
I travelled in them Umbau's to school/college for several years (DB). Have trouble imagining them with centre buffer... (and close coupling...)

Markus, are they very loud? A Dutch friend claimed they were quite loud....
 

Gizzy

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pugwash said:
Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.
There is a good review on the BR80 loco and Umbau train set in this month's 'Continental Modeller', which states that there are both standard and narrow gauge buffer beams included in this set....

http://www.pecopublications.co.uk/ < Link To www.pecopublications.co.uk
 

pugwash

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Spule 4 said:
Aljosha said:
pugwash said:
Does anyone know if the Piko Umbau carriages (the 6 wheelers) have alternative buffers to make them centre buffer, like their BR80? I can only find pics of them with standard gauge buffers and the Piko site doesn't say if they can be swapped or not.
Ta.
I travelled in them Umbau's to school/college for several years (DB). Have trouble imagining them with centre buffer... (and close coupling...)

Markus, are they very loud? A Dutch friend claimed they were quite loud....

There used to be wagons nicknamed 'donnerbuechsen' - roughly thunder boxes - as they were steel with no damping, however they were 4-wheel made in the 1920s. But guess what they got converted into? I'll give you a clue, umbau means conversion. :D
 

Aljosha

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pugwash said:
There used to be wagons nicknamed 'donnerbuechsen' - roughly thunder boxes - as they were steel with no damping, however they were 4-wheel made in the 1920s. But guess what they got converted into? I'll give you a clue, umbau means conversion. :D
Hi, can I help a little,
below a photo of the very 'Donnerbuechse':
a392fe42c14f470ea519fc6467f2e2de.jpg


and to give a bit more background information about the origins of the 3 wheeler Umbau's:
see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbau-Wagen
some old 2 wheelers had a 3rd axle added, otherwise they used these old guys:
897bbc642ac0456987a6ebfc2de585d7.jpg
 

Aljosha

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Spule 4 said:
Markus, are they very loud? A Dutch friend claimed they were quite loud....
Er, YES, quite a rattly bumpy ride, not very good if you had to copy each others homework before school... :)
And I remember the bang of the doors, one after another, when the controller walked along the train and slammed them shut, one after another...
Below a little guide which type of train is best for copying homework: ;-) :D
BEST
- old green Reichsbahn coaches (lovely huge sofas, wood panelling, compartments, excellent suspension!)
703d31e23a5f4fee87e60443cb9b633a.jpg


- old electric MU's, BR 515, normally in pairs
18f2e949396949b48a17ab9107df3cd7.jpg


- Silberling (silver) coaches
09b164884663419ca82eb7242409261c.jpg


- 4 wheel Umbau's
496277ad0221490e84374944bf1b7c5b.jpg


- 3 wheel Umbau's

7eff98c1a15b46c99f095b388922586d.jpg


- red railbus BR798, just like the PIKO, usually a rake of 6 (horrible suspension, very rattly, very non-loco like change of gears as did it just like a 'road-bus', jerked hugely with each gear change!)
WORST Any questions? :D
61aba26ef6244fc0a14e8c2051aa7360.jpg
 

pugwash

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Er, yeah.
How did you get your homework done? :rofl:
They sold those silberlinges to the CFL too, the very last ones are waiting here to go to scrap at Trier. The last ones are the ones they converted into bikesheds on wheels.
 

Spule 4

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Thanks for the info Markus, especially what stock is best for "Hausaufgabe" completion at the 11th hour!

Yes, my Dutch friend told me about the "thunderbox" coaching stock and the history of some of the umbau/"rebuilt" coaching stock. Shame that some of the attractive 3 axle compartment stock got hacked up, but all in the name of progress?

Also, I have a German friend that had fond memories of riding in the BR798 to school, but I can understand the performance and ride quality issues.
 

Spule 4

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OK guys, a technical question....

For someone who knows enough German to get in trouble, what is the difference between "umbau" and "reko" as both have the same English meaning of rebuilt or reconstruction, or is the difference that subtle?

I do notice that "reko" is more often applied to locomotives?
 

coyote97

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Spule 4 said:
For someone who knows enough German to get in trouble, what is the difference between "umbau" and "reko" as both have the same English meaning of rebuilt or reconstruction, or is the difference that subtle?

I do notice that "reko" is more often applied to locomotives?




The differences seem to be small. The biggest difference is surely that the FRG (Federal Republik of Germany-(West)) and the GDR (German Democratic Republic-(East)) used differnt expressions.
The West used "Umbau", The East used "Reko". So, in Western Germany, there are some Changes on Locos, too, but not really "reko"-locos.
The Estern Germany RR had "Reko"-Waggons!
We in the west had "Altbau" and "Neubau"-Loks. There were Neubau-Loks which were really completly new constructed, but there were locos with new boilers which were called "BR 01neu" (just in the slang.....regulalry the got s special operation-number behind the "01".

Interestingly, those expressions were found to make a kind of trademark for a special work.
Such like the Umbau-Waggons or the Reko-Loks.
Its not just a general expression for techincal changes, it describes those changes in detail.
That is becaus those changes often were made in some kind of campaign, where the reconstruction was decided and then thousands of waggons went to the reconstruction-programm and were changed nearly in th same way.




The "Umbauwagen"-program was founded mainly because the prussian "Abteilwagen" (like shown above) had no inner "gangway". The operatoers and inspectors had to go OUTSIDE from one cabin to the other, from one wagon to the other!
A neck-breaking stunt, not just in wintertimes when boards were slippery and icy!!!


But there were THOUSANDS of them, so the DB decided to use the frames and to do a completely new and standard cabin above. It should make a practical and ggod looking outside with completely closed gangways fron one car to the other and a completely new and modern interior.
They got new and normalized braking systems and where fix-coupled always as a pair.
Modified buffers between the two cars of a pair allowed the couplers to stay stronger what hold the two cars tighter. The 3-axled cars were known as bad runners, but as a pair the ran more gently. So, with this advantage, the pairs were allowed to run 100km/h instead of 90 or 80 like the old ones. Therefor the bearings had to be changed to roler-bearings.


The Classes of the pairs were like this:


There was no complete 1. class waggon (A), just a mixed one: AB
There was no complete baggage car (D), just a mixxed one: BD


So pairs often looked like this:


AB/B or AB/BD or B/BD or B/B

There was no "C" (3.Class), even though the DB planned to have a Class "C" when needed.
The "Donnerbüchsen" which were always C, B or BC were changed to be B, A or AB Class waggons.
The C-Class NEVER was brought to reality in afterwar constructions. Thats why there are no C-Umbauwagons.


The 4-axle Umbauwaggons followed the 3-axles. Seeing that there was a big advantage with the new and modern cabins for customer acceptance, the old 4-axle were changed, too.
The cabin was constructed to fit the look and interior like the 3-axles. ALL 4-axles Umbau-Wagons got doors at each end and in the middle, to allow a fast passenger change The old wagons just had doors on each end.

Now, theres just one thing i know for more about the 3-axles Umbau-wagons:
They were ok for the passengers, but personal didnt like them much. They had weak brakes (as the did when they were "old") and therfor were difficult to handle, especially when braking-conditions were hard (snow, rain, inclines...)


Greetings

Frank
 

Spule 4

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Thanks, I almost wondered if it was a D-DDR differnce, as appears to be the case.

Also an interesting perspective on operations!