Trams and Tramway Matters

[trammayo]

The Rotherham single-ended trams needed turning loops or wyes to change direction as the main controls were up front - although I believe they had a small back-up controller at the rear for depot shunting. The need to rebuild a bridge on the route truncated the service and brought about its demise.


If the British Isles had a totally green electrical supply (ie; no polution at source) then it makes sense to re-introduce electric transport to cities. Buses, trolleybuses, trams and tram trains work together - but only in an integrated transport system - the free-for-all that has existed for many years does not work in favour of "green" systems.


Also, many (if not the majority) of all tramways systems in the UK were built using government loans - taking up to 60 years to pay back (and the track having to be relaid at least once during that time and the rolling stock worn out). Whatever mode of transport is used, there is a price to pay (capital at least). Buses use roads available to all (in the main) but bare very little of the true cost - and neither do trolleybuses - but trams have to pay for their infrastucture and the road if street running! Its all about horses for courses.

 

[MRail]

Yes, Rotherham's last batch of cars did look a bit like trolleybuses...

From "Tramway Twighlight, J Joyce"

 

[pghewett]

Besides a system of funding in which there was no accounting provision for asset renewal (as would happen today), municipal tramways and trolleybus systems were hit hard when the electricity supply industry was nationalised in 1948. Previously, there had been important synergies between the loads generated by public transport (daytime) and domestic requirements (mainly at night) which led to a fairly balanced load on the municipal power plants, indeed well into the twenties, trams were the main customers for municipal power stations. And it was much easier to use common distribution networks. That local advantage disappeared with the national grid and (nearly) every system had to become a stand alone operation. Municipal trolleybuses were a cost effective way of continuing to use municipal power and the not-yet-life-expired tram power distribution systems, so when those wore out, the trolleys went, too (same accounting problem!).

To make matters worse (to pick up trammayo's point about loan funding), at the point at which the system closed, all the unrepaid loans had to be written off - hence the joke at the time that "trams were what lost money when you decided to close them". It wasn't helped by the fact that the loans were usually - as stated - 60 year ones, which far exceeded the life of the kit.

Maybe PPP funding isn't so bad after all, but then, again...


Graham H

 

[themole]

Dresden have an exhibition at the moment, here are some of their meter gauge trams. Alyn

 

[themole]

 

[themole]

Some pictures of the Chemnitz, first the works NG tram, then the four wheel NG tram. Note very similar to the LGB tram.

 

[themole]

Here's some Russian pictures.....

 

[themole]

 

[themole]

 

[Madman]

Great and interesting pictures. I'll say this however. There's some rough looking right of way there

 

[tramcar trev]

Great piccies as always... 2 observations; some of those single truck cars seem to have a lot of overhang and they do like their track "Kinky"

 

[dunnyrail]

It has to be said that the Ruskies ere going through the same idiotic process that we went through in the 50's with their Tramways. I.E. allowing them to get run down prior to closure, investment if any is based on Oil Fueled Road Tansport except that the Railways are heavily electrified. No doubt in 20 or so years after all, the trams are gone they willre rediscover them and take years to put them back because of costs. Lessons are never learned by Politicians of all kinds in all Countries.

Great pic though.
JonD

 

[MRail]

... investment if any is based on Oil Fueled Road Tansport

To my dim eyes, the roads look worse than the PW.

 

[themole]

Pictures from Lisbon.......

 

[themole]

 

[themole]

One more from Lisbon.

Then Milan.....

 

[themole]

New Skoda tram......

 

[Madman]

I noticed that on the Milan tram, there appears to be a rope attached to the pantograph and leading down to one side of the tram. I have not seen this before in any tram photos. Would it be for raising and lowering the pantograph manually?

 

[tramcar trev]

I noticed that on the Milan tram, there appears to be a rope attached to the pantograph and leading down to one side of the tram. I have not seen this before in any tram photos. Would it be for raising and lowering the pantograph manually?

Hmmmmm or maybe simply the mechanism is broken?
One thing is for sure; If Portugal goes down the gurgler can I have first dibbs on the trams???

Im wondering how much psychology goes into designing new trams. Does the design team think that if they look fast more people will travel on them or do they just want their trams to look like Ferraris?

 

[Dtsteam]

I think Dan's right - you can see the rope on other pictures so it must be to pull the pantograph down. After all, the Peter Witt cars were built from 1928 onwards, although I think the design dates back to 1917.

In the eighties, some preservationists were able to buy old trams from Opporto for their trucks, then people started to pitch for the little Lisbon cars until the government effectively declared them a national treasure, although some have popped up elsewhere in recent years. If Alyn pops up a picture of Bolton 66, that was the first tram to be restored with Portuguese running gear.