TrainLine45 R3 Points - Review

[curtis]

Folks, we've been using TrainLine45 Brass points (switches, turnouts depending on your geography) for our railway. I finally got around to doing a review after a year or so of using them (first time doing something like this).

I believe these are also available rebranding as the Modell-Land.de (ML Train) for those in Europe and I think the TrainLi.com for those in US.

Let me know if you've got questions or feedback on the vide/review

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Your review is interesting.

You neglect to mention the benefit of the powered frog, and mention you have no issues with the longer plastic frog of LGB.

I would guess your lack of issues or seeing the benefit is that you do not run short wheelbase locos alone, like an 0-4-0 without any trailing tender.

Stalling on a long plastic frog is an issue for many people, the Stainz is a very popular loco.

As a "fix" for your skates shorting on the frog, some people will use a bit of nail polish lacquer at the area where the 2 frog rails are "too close" granted this is a temporary fix, and will need periodic re-application, but it is cheap and easy, and does not require bending your skates on your locos.

Well spotted on the screwed together power jumpers underneath. A new owner would be well advised to unscrew the screws, put anti-corrosion paste between the "tabs" and the screw head and that will probably last years. Another suggestion would be to use silicon rubber sealant at that joint to halt ingress of moisture/air thus stopping corrosion.

In my case, I do all the jumpering externally with rail clamps, so I do not rely at all at connections underneath (except for the powered frog).

What I was wondering is did you compare the flangeway widths and depths between the switches?

Greg

 

[Software Tools]

Stalling on a long plastic frog is an issue for many people, the Stainz is a very popular loco.

The modellers who buy larger radius special-work are generally not using short wheelbase locos such as a Stainz.

 

[JimmyB]

The modellers who buy larger radius special-work are generally not using short wheelbase locos such as a Stainz.

Not sure about this, depending what you call larger radius. It has been recommended more than once to use LGB (or equivalent) R3 radius if possible, which I do, but still run a Stainz, Otto and Porter, all short wheel base locos.

 

[Rhinochugger]

One of the big questions for me, is whether the locos jolt as they go through the curved turnout in the same way that they do on LGB R3.

 

[Gizzy]

I have some of their R2 points (not quite the same as LGB R2 curves but fairly close). I brought it for my first layout and used it on an R2 curve. I've since acquired some more.

An older version has wires rather than the bus bar connections under the sleepers. Also, I found I couldn't use a LGB point motor on it as it has a longer tie bar throw, so I purchased a TL motor (with built in decoder) which seems to need more maintenance to run reliably compared to a LGB one. It does though have a motor and gearbox, unlike the solenoid driven LGB type, and the motor movement is quite realistic and lovely to watch, compared to the snap of LGB motors.
I removed the older point and replaced it with the newer (bus bar) version which can be fitted with a LGB motor or manual switch. I'm toying with the idea of using my older one elsewhere on my layout.

I didn't need to wire up the frogs on any of my TL points. Medium sized Bo-Bo, 0-8-0, 2-6-2 and smaller 0-4-0 locos all seem to cope with no stalling noticed.

I reckon the TL points are at least as good as LGB, although I haven't any of their R3 points....

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I have #6 and #4 turnouts on my mainline, I have small to large locos, I buy what I like.

Even some medium sized locos can stutter on a "dead frog" All my #6 are powered frogs, the #4 have a pretty short frog so most things go through, but this: (made by Accucraft believe it or not)

 

[AustrianNG]

I have two of the TL points on my layout (bought under the guise of Modell-land.de before Brexit stopped them dealing with the UK)
I didn’t electrify the frogs and have not experienced any problems.
I did unscrew the bus bar plates and use conductive paste to prevent future loss of power as well as rail clamps on most of my points.
All my Stainz and even the little field Bahn loco run through all my R3 (and a couple of R1) points no problem as my track, wheels and skates are all clean and in the case of the wheels, are picking up power.

 

[curtis]

Your review is interesting.

You neglect to mention the benefit of the powered frog, and mention you have no issues with the longer plastic frog of LGB.

I would guess your lack of issues or seeing the benefit is that you do not run short wheelbase locos alone, like an 0-4-0 without any trailing tender.

Stalling on a long plastic frog is an issue for many people, the Stainz is a very popular loco.

As a "fix" for your skates shorting on the frog, some people will use a bit of nail polish lacquer at the area where the 2 frog rails are "too close" granted this is a temporary fix, and will need periodic re-application, but it is cheap and easy, and does not require bending your skates on your locos.

Well spotted on the screwed together power jumpers underneath. A new owner would be well advised to unscrew the screws, put anti-corrosion paste between the "tabs" and the screw head and that will probably last years. Another suggestion would be to use silicon rubber sealant at that joint to halt ingress of moisture/air thus stopping corrosion.

In my case, I do all the jumpering externally with rail clamps, so I do not rely at all at connections underneath (except for the powered frog).

What I was wondering is did you compare the flangeway widths and depths between the switches?

Greg

Thanks for the comments Greg.

You're right, I made an assumption that the viewer would understand the potential benefits of a polarised frog - something I'll consider for next time. I have a number of shorter wheelbase locos - the main one that I run regularly would be the track-cleaning loco which hasn't had any issues over either the LGB or Trainline points. My other smaller locos are the x-6-xs such as the U Class, Ballerina or Spreewalds which are also content (admittedly, slightly longer though).

I didn't - I'm happy to measure it up for you if it would be interesting/helpful. Which specific measurements are you interested in?

One of the big questions for me, is whether the locos jolt as they go through the curved turnout in the same way that they do on LGB R3.

Not that I've ever noticed (there is one where it does but that's more to do with my shoddy and uneven track laying. I'll try to watch for the jump on both the LGB and TrainLine ones in the next running sessions. Any idea what causes it in your cases?

I have two of the TL points on my layout (bought under the guise of Modell-land.de before Brexit stopped them dealing with the UK)
I didn’t electrify the frogs and have not experienced any problems.
I did unscrew the bus bar plates and use conductive paste to prevent future loss of power as well as rail clamps on most of my points.
All my Stainz and even the little field Bahn loco run through all my R3 (and a couple of R1) points no problem as my track, wheels and skates are all clean and in the case of the wheels, are picking up power.

View attachment 311653

I had a couple of comments on the video about using conductive paste. Definitely need to do that as I'm fixing and relaying!

 

[Rhinochugger]

Not that I've ever noticed (there is one where it does but that's more to do with my shoddy and uneven track laying. I'll try to watch for the jump on both the LGB and TrainLine ones in the next running sessions. Any idea what causes it in your cases?

I sold my LGB R3 points some years ago and changed to Aristo 10ft diameter.

I had previously worked it out that the problem area was the badly designed check rail on the curved turnout, and the reason I raised the issue was because the Trainline point doesn't appear to be much different in that respect.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The measurement I was interested in:
"What I was wondering is did you compare the flangeway widths and depths between the switches?"
the flangeways on both the stock rails and the wing rails of the frog, both the depth and width of them... not a big deal, but often when you run longer trains, you need to tighten up these dimensions.

The jolt is the wheel dropping into the throat of the frog... the wider tolerances of most switches allow this to happen. (related to flangeway width and depth)

Greg

 

[rentren]

Checked Trainli.com US$ prices, made them into colourful CanuckBucks and compared with cdn LGB prices. Well, LGB is cheaper AND comes with a manual drive.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Cost is not the only issue if you want to run trains.

 

[JimmyB]

Cost is not the only issue if you want to run trains.

For a lot of us, cost is quite high on the agenda, but as always you need to do the CBA.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Of course, common sense.

But, for many people, track is a once in 10 years or more investment. When you amortize the extra cost for quality stuff over 10 or 15 years, and realize that poor trackwork is not something you can easily overcome, most people come to the right answer. I laugh when I see people agonize about cost of track, but have 10 or more expensive locos...

But a true ROI with your CBA will give the answer to anyone paying attention.

Greg

 

[adverse camber]

Very good point Greg. Some of my track has been outside in regular use for more than 30 years. LGB has definitely stood the test of time better than anything else. The points can loose electrical continuity to the blades after 20plus years outside but this is easily remedied by soldering additional jumper leads. They are not that slightly but they work.

 

[curtis]

The measurement I was interested in:
"What I was wondering is did you compare the flangeway widths and depths between the switches?"
the flangeways on both the stock rails and the wing rails of the frog, both the depth and width of them... not a big deal, but often when you run longer trains, you need to tighten up these dimensions.

The jolt is the wheel dropping into the throat of the frog... the wider tolerances of most switches allow this to happen. (related to flangeway width and depth)

Greg

Sorry for the delay in grabbing these - are these helpful?

	LGB Width (mm)	TrainLine 45 Width (mm)	LGB Depth (mm)	TrainLine45 Depth (mm)
Straight (stock to guard)	4mm	3mm	5.5mm	5.5mm
Frog	4.5mm	4mm	3mm	3.5mm
Divergent (stock to guard	4mm	3mm	6mm	5.5mm

 

[curtis]

Checked Trainli.com US$ prices, made them into colourful CanuckBucks and compared with cdn LGB prices. Well, LGB is cheaper AND comes with a manual drive.

In that case, may as well stick with the LGB ones!

Sourcing in Europe seems to represent a bigger price difference which becomes of note and has the option to electrify the points. However, as I said in the video there is slightly more overhead required but still worth it if someone else has paid the learning curve (me ) in my opinion.

 

[rentren]

Right, electrifying the points, that's an additional benefit.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

You will notice that the LGB flangeways are wider than the worst case G1MRA spec for standard gauge. Way over the spec!

the G1MRA spec is 3mm +0, -0.5mm

I target at 3.0 mm +-0 (NMRA specs too)

If you use the typical LGB sloppy specs, the LGB switch works. If you use other than LGB, then you get picked frogs, wheels dropping into the frog throat, etc.

All the pieces work together.. so the specifications of LGB wheels have to be "coarsened" to work with the coarser specs of the flangeways, etc.

But improving the wheels and track to meet somthing like the G1MRA specs yields much better operation.

Bottom line, if you run more than just LGB, you might want to modify their switches.

Greg