Track conductivity

delivery of oblivion

delivery of oblivion

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Hello..I have not posted on here in ages.Due to a health issue i could no longer maintain the garden and railway as it was ans so at the end of last year a landscaper friend came in with a JCB and completely removed the garden and re did it for us,and i have re laid track on gravel effectively.Its nothing like the scenic railway we had before but at least i can run trains.All the fish plates have been totally cleaned out and track is regularly clean,yet i still have issues with trains stop starting and its a case of kicking the track and various places and the trains move again.I have not tried "Official" Peko conductivity paste in the rail joiners,although did experiment yrs ago with a copper greae which proved a disaster,getting all mixed up with mud,garden gunge,creating a nightmare !! The new railway will not have this issue at all...Is the conductivity paste worth using..? A friend who is not a g scale rail person suggested electrical contact cleaning spray..,in the fishplates.Would that be worth a go..? Thanks for any advice.I am also having to replace my over 20 yr old LGB 1 amp Controller and a Helmsmann 5 amp controller,also yrs and yrs old....Only controller i can see thats of reasonable price is the Gauge master G scale one,,which i belive gives out 2.5 amps...May get one of those to begin with.Cannot see anywhere where the LGB 1 amp controolers are being sold.ie the ones you used to get in a Starter set...no transformer required.Thanks for reading....Best Wishes,Ade
 
The conductivity paste does indeed help but if your track is being reused it will likely have tarnished ends this may be of limited help. Not the cheapest of options but replace existing fishplates by Massoth clamps will transform the power route round your line. Getting the old ones off can be a bit of a task Here is a link to one of the easiest that I have seen without trashing the fishplates that may be of use at some stage.
 
delivery of oblivion said:
All the fish plates have been totally cleaned out
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Yes it sounds like the fishplates are struggling with conductivity. There are 3 enemies to conductivity with track power in the garden, oxidisation, debris and mechanically loose.
As the track has been dismantled and stored you could have all 3. Then when you re-lay the track there will be a little movement of the track that will further mechanically loosen the fishplates giving intermittent stopping.

I gave up with fishplates years ago so can't suggest methods to improve things although in addition for cleaning, squeezing the fishplates with pliers to get a tighter fit may help. The fishplates may have been loosened in the dismantling and re-laying process.

Along with dunnyrail I would recommend to fit rail-clamps for long term reliability.

AL
 
I still use paste out of habit, though I am now dead rail, but when I was still on DC track power, I ran a quality bus wire (I like automotive paired cable giving a double sheath) in parallel with the track and connected it every 3-5 metres and to every siding. Bit if a faff, but it worked very well.
 
Martyn has said it well, in smaller scales for DCC fishplates are not relied upon with dropper wires for every section soldered to a main Ring. Big faff to do but I can vouch for the reliability as I did it for my 00 line.
 
It's a well-debated question, and there are a few ways of dealing with the issue.

Conductive paste is one method, but probably the least satisfactory.

Screwed fishplates (Aristocraft and Bachmann) work well without conductive paste.

Rail clamps are pretty well foolproof.
 
Thanks for all the replies...No one has mentioned the idea of using electrical contact spray so i assume this would likely be no good...
 
delivery of oblivion said:
Thanks for all the replies...No one has mentioned the idea of using electrical contact spray so i assume this would likely be no good...
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It wouldn't last outside, and with the amount of movement (IMHO) :)
 
Paul M said:
But even with clamps, the rails at the joint will need cleaning
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Not so with Massoth Clamps, the screws create a nice clean bit that is mire than adequate. I did start off cleaning the ends of rails but even with clamps those ends still get some tarnish but where the screws have bitten gently into the rail stays squeeky clean.
 
delivery of oblivion said:
Thanks for all the replies...No one has mentioned the idea of using electrical contact spray so i assume this would likely be no good...
Click to expand...
The big issue is that, the LGB fishplate, being a slide-on arrangement, allows oxidation to form between the rail and the fishplate over time.

Screwed fishplates and rail clamps keep the metal faces tight together and do not allow oxidation to form.

A long time ago, people were wary of the effectiveness of the Aristocraft (now Bachmann) screwed fishplate. When I moved house (and railway) before re-laying track that had been down six years in the old house, I removed all of the screwed fishplates in order to clean the rail ends (with white vinegar - a mild acid). To my surprise, the factory-made joints of the rail ends, that had sat outside for another two years before being re-used, were still bright brass where I removed the fishplates for what turned out to be unnecessary cleaning (Obviously the other ends that had been exposed for a couple of years needed cleaning).

The WWNR has now been down for about ten years - half of the track is Aristocraft with screwed fishplates, the other half is second-hand LGB flexitrack with Hillman rail clamps. I haven't suffered any serious connectivity problems.
 
Rhinochugger said:
The big issue is that, the LGB fishplate, being a slide-on arrangement, allows oxidation to form between the rail and the fishplate over time.

Screwed fishplates and rail clamps keep the metal faces tight together and do not allow oxidation to form.

A long time ago, people were wary of the effectiveness of the Aristocraft (now Bachmann) screwed fishplate. When I moved house (and railway) before re-laying track that had been down six years in the old house, I removed all of the screwed fishplates in order to clean the rail ends (with white vinegar - a mild acid). To my surprise, the factory-made joints of the rail ends, that had sat outside for another two years before being re-used, were still bright brass where I removed the fishplates for what turned out to be unnecessary cleaning (Obviously the other ends that had been exposed for a couple of years needed cleaning).

The WWNR has now been down for about ten years - half of the track is Aristocraft with screwed fishplates, the other half is second-hand LGB flexitrack with Hillman rail clamps. I haven't suffered any serious connectivity problems.
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We used a lot of Aristo track on the Ruschbahn all in non-scenic areas. We had few problems with the screwed fishplates except where we had curved the tail and these were no screw holes. These in time started to fail electrically to be fixed with either soldered jumper wires or Massoth Clamps.
 
dunnyrail said:
Not so with Massoth Clamps, the screws create a nice clean bit that is mire than adequate. I did start off cleaning the ends of rails but even with clamps those ends still get some tarnish but where the screws have bitten gently into the rail stays squeeky clean.
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Totally agree, I have relaid my oxidised track using the Massoth clamps many times and have never bothered to clean anything. After re-laying I test run a train expecting conductivity problems that have never occurred. Iv'e never used conductive paste because as Jon says the Massoth screws burnish themselves into the base of the rail. This leaves a visible polished contact area on the rail where the clamp screw has burnished it's contact patch and gives a totally air-tight contact.

This burnishing action does not apply to the Hillman clamps and these may require extra cleaning and protection.

Al
 
Hullo Ade,

Good to hear from you again.

Railclamps are the way to go, but even these can work loose and need tightening.

I've most makes on my line. Hillman, Massoth and Split Jaw. I personally find the later harder to fit but they work well once installed.

The easiest to install, and obtain, are probably the Massoth version....
 
AlanL said:
This burnishing action does not apply to the Hillman clamps and these may require extra cleaning and protection.

Al
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It's probably good practice to clean the rail end before using a Hillman clamp - I didn't have a lot of choice as the track had sat around for a year or two - but once they're installed they're fine.
 
Software Tools said:
They don't. You seem to be attributing some magic properties to the Massoth style clamps. In fact either type works well in my experience.
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I also have many Hillman clamps both over and under fishplate for LGB and Peco track. I never bothered to clean after finding that the tightness appears to work over rail that had both LGB graphite grease but was lifted for re-laying where clamps had been used from new or where the rail was not too tarnished. However it should be noted that Hillman are no longer available from new so we're into what is still available commercially and for ease of fitting Massoth requiring only a screwdriver and removal of existing fishplates are the easiest to fit. And for that matter remove for alterations.

I have found the Peco Massoth to be near useless, but I had enough Hillman for my needs in the loft where track power rules the roost. Outside any alterations I use the Peco as now that I am dead rail track power continuity is not an issue.
 
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