Total newbie question re: controlling LGB points

[ThomasDadDurham]

So im about to try and wire up a first simple passing loop. Power wise I have a pair of the 5003 start set controllers, with the accesories output marked as 14V 0.5A. I have a pair 12070 turnout auxiliary switch, a pair of 12010 turnout mechanism/point motor. I can see how those wire together, and where my isolating blocks go. Rather than use the Markin control box, Ive got a SPDT switch. A 3 position cam switch to be exact - (lets call it position 1/OFF/Position 3.) . I had initially thought it just worked by reversing the polarity, but that isnt the case right, because thats how DC works and these are AC?

So Ive read I need to have two diodes, and have them wired in opposite directions position 1 one way, position 3 other way. All makes sense as far as I understand AC.

But what diode? Can someone make life easy and point me at the exact diode I need on RS Components? Every thread Ive read on this and other forums people are saying 'diode' but nothing more about what exactly Im looking for.

I dont want to 'just use the readymade marklin control box' because I want to make my own control box, and expand it as the layout expands.

As a final Q: theres enough 'juice' from a starter set control box to switch the paired points of a passing loop right? I notice every thread says '18v' but the starter control set is clearly labelled 14v on its accessory output.

 

[playmofire]

So im about to try and wire up a first simple passing loop. Power wise I have a pair of the 5003 start set controllers, with the accesories output marked as 14V 0.5A. I have a pair 12070 turnout auxiliary switch, a pair of 12010 turnout mechanism/point motor. I can see how those wire together, and where my isolating blocks go. Rather than use the Markin control box, Ive got a SPDT switch. A 3 position cam switch to be exact - (lets call it position 1, position 2, and Off.) . I had initially thought it just worked by reversing the polarity, but that isnt the case right, because thats how DC works and these are AC?

So Ive read I need to have two diodes, and have them wired in opposite directions position 1 one way, position 2 the other way. All makes sense as far as I understand AC.

But what diode? Can someone make life easy and point me at the exact diode I need on RS Components? Every thread Ive read on this and other forums people are saying 'diode' but nothing more about what exactly Im looking for.

I dont want to 'just use the readymade marklin control box' because I want to make my own control box, and expand it as the layout expands.

As a final Q: theres enough 'juice' from a starter set control box to switch the paired points of a passing loop right? I notice every thread says '18v' but the starter control set is clearly labelled 14v on its accessory output.

Use the control box, it's easier and the switches are momentary ones which is what the point motors need for a quick shot of juice. 14v will work (my Playmobil controllers only give 14v on the accessory outlet), but the points need to be clean and well-maintained. What is more tricky is if you want to use the points to drive an auxiliary switch as 14v then is more doubtful.

 

[ThomasDadDurham]

Use the control box, it's easier and the switches are momentary ones which is what the point motors need for a quick shot of juice. 14v will work (my Playmobil controllers only give 14v on the accessory outlet), but the points need to be clean and well-maintained. What is more tricky is if you want to use the points to drive an auxiliary switch as 14v then is more doubtful.

This is a brand new set of points the LGB 19902 station set to be exact. The 12070 auxillary switch, as I understand it, can switch power from the mainline to the passing loop at the same time as the 12010 switches the points, does it really need much power? :S

I'll just get a 3 Position, Momentary, Rotary Cam switch then. I think I need just the standard 1amp Junction Diode that costs a few pence and I have a bunch of. But Id prefer the confirmation. RSComponents is a lot easier for me to get bits from than hunting down LGB stuff, because I get so many business bits from there, Im at branch at least once a month if Im not mail ordering.
The other reason I want to use these type rather than the Marklin one, is the Marklin one has no centre 'off' position for the switches iirc? Just open/closed for your points?

Having the third 'off' position makes future automation of the passing loop easier to integrate Either with the RRConcepts Stationmaster, or with just LGB componenets once I can work that out from the book I have. But magnets and sensors and all that can wait till Ive got this basic bit down.

 

[playmofire]

My experiences have been with the earlier version of auxiliary switch where 14v isn't always enough, e.g. where the point motor is switching the point and operating a semaphore signal; indeed, I have sometimes found that even 16v isn't enough. The 12070 will probably be fine, but I would still, personally, go down the Marklin/LGB control box route, four switches in one unit and if you want more, then another unit can just be plugged in to the first. New ones expensive but on eBay can be had for £35 or so.

 

[The Shed]

 

[Gizzy]

If you want to use toggle switches in your own panel, then I recommend these;

Search results for: 'g scale point switch' | Gaugemaster

Default Description

www.gaugemasterretail.com

They come with the correct diodes and a wiring diagram....

 

[korm kormsen]

i would not use a toggle switch. sooner or later somebody forgets to put it back into OFF.

KISS!
AC source (LGB the black one) -> in paralel two bellbuttons -> after each button a N4 diode (one reverted) -> bring together the two cables out of the diodes -> connect that unified cable to the "orange" contact of the switchmotor. connect the "white" contact back to the AC source.
that worked for me for over a decade.

AC source of 14V is good enough for one or two turnouts.

later on you can replace the bellbuttons by reedcontacts.

 

[ThomasDadDurham]

Ah - seems there is no such thing as a momentary rotary switch. I'd wanted that rotary element so the handle provided a visual indicator of which loop was active. (Secondly, Id initially thought points needed a constant signal not a 'pulse' and so I could use the same rotary switch to switch power as to switch the points, if it was double pole single throw.)
While rotary switches can be momentary switches, they are made so by being spring return - so completely defeating my entire reason for wanting to use them.

Buttons it is then, but Im going to work out the most simple way to have a clear visual indicator of which loop is currently open and powered. Neither PIKO or LGB have that in their controllers (figures really).
Logically I cant power an LED off the 'pulse' of a momentary switch. So I'd have to run wires *back* from the two isolated track sections to this control box, and when that isolated section is powered, voila, its indicator is on too.

These first passing loops will be numbered platforms you see. So if light "1" is on, I know the train going around is going to pull into Platform 1. Something I can easily knock up I guess.

Looks like Rails of Sheffield has a second hand lot of what I need - I'll ring them in the morning, toddler allowing.

 

[curtis]

Some folks above have said that adding the auxiliary switch (LGB 12070) may be a bit too much for 14V after some time outdoors. I'd second this as we run 20V and the lanterns (similar accessory) can add a bit too much weight to them. They required periodic (every couple of months) lubrication.

However, if you can work around this, you could use the axillary switch to switch your lights. Run a power source in to one of the connections, and two back to the control board for each respective line. This would represent the -direction- of each switch as opposed to the platform (as you'd need ensure both switches (in and out) are set to Platform 1.

I had considered using a single switch for both points in the past but was advised against it. However, others may be able to chime in.

Good luck!

 

[korm kormsen]

Some folks above have said that adding the auxiliary switch (LGB 12070) may be a bit too much for 14V after some time outdoors. I'd second this as we run 20V and the lanterns (similar accessory) can add a bit too much weight to them. They required periodic (every couple of months) lubrication.

However, if you can work around this, you could use the axillary switch to switch your lights. Run a power source in to one of the connections, and two back to the control board for each respective line. This would represent the -direction- of each switch as opposed to the platform (as you'd need ensure both switches (in and out) are set to Platform 1.

I had considered using a single switch for both points in the past but was advised against it. However, others may be able to chime in.

i fully agree, that the LGB-turnout-lamps use up a lot of "force". (in my opinion much more than the 12070 add-on)
leaving those out of the picture, with one LGB controlpanel or a pair of pushbuttons the "force" needed for two switchmotors and one 12070 will be delivered by the 14V-AC output of the LGB starter controler. (depending on length of cables versus their diameter. - if you don't want to buy a booster)
if the controllamps are powered from the rails and both switchmotors are powered in paralel, there is no need for a second 12070.

yes, i know, that there are many opinions against such a setup, but it worked for me, since LGB invented their EPL-system in the early '80ies.

 

[ThomasDadDurham]

Some folks above have said that adding the auxiliary switch (LGB 12070) may be a bit too much for 14V after some time outdoors. [...]

Good luck!

Dont worry - these starter controllers were a cheap way to learn how this stuff all connects together, and to run a small 'test' loop on the patio/indoors. Once Ive got that down, and how to wire up a loop and a siding, I'll be expanding outdoors if theres enough time left in the year. At that point I'd be getting a much beefier control setup, say Gaugemasters panel mounted ones, perhaps selling these on again or relegating them to controlling a planned seperate shunting yard based on brendam docks or the quarries.

 

[JimmyB]

So im about to try and wire up a first simple passing loop. Power wise I have a pair of the 5003 start set controllers, with the accesories output marked as 14V 0.5A. I have a pair 12070 turnout auxiliary switch, a pair of 12010 turnout mechanism/point motor. I can see how those wire together, and where my isolating blocks go. Rather than use the Markin control box, Ive got a SPDT switch. A 3 position cam switch to be exact - (lets call it position 1/OFF/Position 3.) . I had initially thought it just worked by reversing the polarity, but that isnt the case right, because thats how DC works and these are AC?

So Ive read I need to have two diodes, and have them wired in opposite directions position 1 one way, position 3 other way. All makes sense as far as I understand AC.

But what diode? Can someone make life easy and point me at the exact diode I need on RS Components? Every thread Ive read on this and other forums people are saying 'diode' but nothing more about what exactly Im looking for.

I dont want to 'just use the readymade marklin control box' because I want to make my own control box, and expand it as the layout expands.

As a final Q: theres enough 'juice' from a starter set control box to switch the paired points of a passing loop right? I notice every thread says '18v' but the starter control set is clearly labelled 14v on its accessory output.

Just my comment, and I appreciate that the motors use 18 VAC, half wave (whatever that means ). For mine, I did use 12 VDC (LED drivers), but not always enough humph, so I bought a cheap, from Amazon, 18 VDC power supply, and this works very well, powering points directly or via a Crest (new type) remove points actuator.

 

[Eeyore.Boater]

Ah - seems there is no such thing as a momentary rotary switch. I'd wanted that rotary element so the handle provided a visual indicator of which loop was active. (Secondly, Id initially thought points needed a constant signal not a 'pulse' and so I could use the same rotary switch to switch power as to switch the points, if it was double pole single throw.)
While rotary switches can be momentary switches, they are made so by being spring return - so completely defeating my entire reason for wanting to use them.

Buttons it is then, but Im going to work out the most simple way to have a clear visual indicator of which loop is currently open and powered. Neither PIKO or LGB have that in their controllers (figures really).
Logically I cant power an LED off the 'pulse' of a momentary switch. So I'd have to run wires *back* from the two isolated track sections to this control box, and when that isolated section is powered, voila, its indicator is on too.

These first passing loops will be numbered platforms you see. So if light "1" is on, I know the train going around is going to pull into Platform 1. Something I can easily knock up I guess.

Looks like Rails of Sheffield has a second hand lot of what I need - I'll ring them in the morning, toddler allowing.

Old school would be to use a DPST momentary push button switch. One pole to motor, one pole to a latching (relay or electronic) device to drive the indication of which button was pressed most recently; not of course the same as route proving using the aux switch on the motor. Probably best with separate power supplies.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Interestingly the small scale Kato point motors use the same 2-wire reversible DC as LGB point motors (though only 12V DC). Kato have a lever switch for their system which fire a momentary pulse but the lever itself latches and thus indicates which way the point was last thrown. I've often wondered whether the Kato switch contacts can take the additional current of an LGB motor and auxiliary switch load. I have all the parts, I must give it a go one day

24-840 Kato Point Switch