To clamp or not to clamp? And if so, then which make?

[Zerogee]

I'm about to start laying some permanent track, and need to make a decision on whether or not to use railclamps. The track is a mix of predominantly LGB (mostly short/medium straights and R3 curves) and Aristocraft (some big curves and long straights), though I have some Trainline45 R2 curves that I'll be using on a later section. I'm looking for actual experiences and practical advice!
Should I use clamps on EVERY join, or just one every few joints and rely on standard joiners (with a little graphite paste) for the remainder? For the clamps, which do folks here favour? I'm looking at the Massoth brass ones as the most economical and easily obtainable at the moment, anyone here who has used them in preference to other brands? I'll DEFINITELY be installing all the points with clamps (joiners removed), to make them easy to lift out.
Do most people remove the existing joiners when they fit clamps, or do some use the over-joiner style of clamp? Do these work as well (or maybe better)? Massoth don't seem to do an over-joiner option, so it would be a different make for that route.
Finally, I realise the Aristo rail comes with its own little joining screws - in people's experience, are these good enough, or should I discard them and use clamps here too?

I'm using Digital control (Dimax) and planning to have three sets of feed wires spaced around a single large loop around the garden, about 45 yards in total.

My current (pun intended...) feeling is to use the Massoth clamps on all the LGB track, and the fitted screws on the Aristo sections - but I'd welcome any opinions!

Thanks,

Jon.

 

[mike]

ok,your singing from the same hym sheet as me, clamps on the points, multipull track feeds ect, ipersonally, will/would/did clamp every joint, .because its always the unclamped joint thats causes greif.. i have used both over clamps, and rail clamps from hilmans, i prefer the railclamps, to the over clamps, its not always possable to remove the fishplate, so over clamp as a last resort, i have used the massoth rail clamp, i found it better than the hillmans, if some what fildler to fit.. that saod, its neater to look at.. so in reflextion, on the new lazy, it will be clamps, clamps and more bloody clamps!!

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Jon
I have used a mixture of Hillman, Splitjaw and SanVal. The san val screw down from the top, are made of stainless steel with stainless steel bolts but although very effective, do not look especially nice. The Hillman and Splitjaw are made of brass (or other materials were appropriate)come in all sorts of guises - insulated, 'normal' extra long, bridge inserts etc. Some have said that the Hillman/splitjaw type are prone to metal fatigue if the track is liable to moving up and down with no real solid under-support and heavy locos rolling over. They all do their job and I have not had one break ....yet! Just get the best deal for bulk!
The easiest to use are the Sanval ones as they are solid and, if your track is at ground level, screwing from the top is always better than having to screw from the side ....????!!!?????:thinking:

 

[stockers]

I would start by using the screws on the Aristo and clamping what ever you can afford of the rest. Clamping can be a gradual process to spread costs.

 

[dunnyrail]

Definitely do the complete layout. With digital control reliability of power is a must, you already have enough problems with Dirty Rails and Dirty Wheels. You do not want to add Poor Rail Joints into the equation. When you put the clamps on, use the LGB Graphite Paste liberally on each joint. You will thank me for this in many years time.

Finally it also makes your layout track more secure in cases of vandalism. I know of a guy that had a layout partially in a field, one night a reveler took the short cut through his field (yes it was a big layout) and attempted to vandalize some of the track. Result no damage except for a bit of lifting, but one drunk with very sore hands the next day!

JonD

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks Mike and Mike! Your comments reinforce the thoughts I'd already had, which is good.... "clamps all the way" it is, I guess! The Massoth ones screw from the top like the SanVal, and as you say it's always best to get the easiest angle for comfortable screwing!
They also seem to be the most reasonable price - less that a quid apiece if bought in bulk from Jeremy (with GSC discount!).

One further question - when fitting clamps (of whatever type), does anyone put a smear of graphite paste in the clamp, or is this actually counter-productive?

Any more advice and experiences welcome, particularly with regard to the screw joiners on Aristo track!

Ta again,

Jon.

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks JonD, you posted while I was still writing my last post, answering one of my queries before I'd asked it!!

 

[Gizzy]

One further question - when fitting clamps (of whatever type), does anyone put a smear of graphite paste in the clamp, or is this actually counter-productive?
Jon.

Haven't used clamps much on my LGB track Jon, but I do put a half pea sized blob of copperslip in the rail joiners.

So far I haven't had any problems....

 

[minimans]

I know wev'e had this before but my tight nature does not allow me to spend a fortune on railclamps which is what it would have cost to do my layout so I came up with this.

Plated Land Rover screw in through the fish-plate and down through the rail foot, you don't even see them from normal viewing distance and they unscrew when you need to change the layout and best of all there CHEAP!!!

 

[The Devonian]

Having all Aristo-Craft brass track I have found that the small screws keep track firmly joined with good electrical conductivity. I check the screws once or twice per annum whilst running trains. I am thinking of clamps where points/switches are installed and will use the Aristo clamps mainly because the screws are face upward and are therefore more easily fitted or removed and they can concealed by ballast.

 

[Cliff George]

Hello Jon.

I'm in the clamp everything from the start camp, if possible. There will be enough problems and eliminating track continuity issues is worth paying for, in my opinion.

Don't use the over joiner clamps. It is much easier to clamp when the track is first layed rather than afterwards.

I've used mostly Hillmans and a few SplitJaw. I have one or two Massoth ones. I prefer the standard Hillmans, except that for power clamps I found the SplitJaw best. I don't like the Massoth ones, they don't seem to keep the track in alignment as well (this may just be because I use mostly flex track).

Not sure about feed wires unless they are heavy gauge. This is because the volts drop is going to be much more significant in the feed wires than in the track itself.

I understand that someone has bought out the Hillmans clamps business from Silverdale (ex LGBoA) when they closed down. There has been a few months interruption is supply, but they should be back to full supply very soon (if they are not already)

I ordered my Hillmans directly from the States. I worked it out carefully but even allowing for customs duties, VAT and the like given the large numbers it worked out cheaper. You would need to work out the figures again based on the current value of the £.

Never had any problems with continuity and rail clamps. With a previous version of my railway, I soldered wires over every joint but soon had problems. My soldering wasn't very good in places.

Just my thoughts, hope it is useful

 

[mike]

id go for a tiny, tiny dab off the graphite paste.. it carnt do any harm, only..good

 

[dragon]

I use small s/steel self tappers as suggested by Neil. No problems and inexpensive.

 

[steve parberry]

I have just used the Aristo fish plate and graphite grease and had no trouble yet but only been down three years....

 

[nico]

i am changing all my joints to clamps(hillman)

 

[Rob s]

Any more advice and experiences welcome, particularly with regard to the screw joiners on Aristo track!

Ta again,

Jon.

Hi Jon

When using the Aristo screws, invest in a good quality driver, with decent handle about £2-3 from a car spares/tool shop, putting a lot in with the little driver Aristo provide leaves you with aching thumbs & fingers. Remember there are 4 screws to each Track join 12 on each point it adds up over a few joints.

Probably stating the obvious but also, slide a sheet of white card under the track as you screw the joints together, catches the small screws as you drop them (you will drop a few believe me ), makes it a lot easier to find the screws for re-use than searching in the ballast. soil. dirt etc

I lost 1/2 a dozen screws at the start, before one of the kind forum members passed on that tip

I also dipped the tip of the driver in vaseline to help hold the screw on the end as i offered the screw to the tapped hole, it gets very frustrating having to keep picking the pesky little things up all the time

 

[Phil]

Clamp

 

[Cliff George]

http://hillmanrailclamps.3dcartstores.com/

 

[Shawn]

I would say use the screws with the Aristo track and then do what minimans suggested. The Screw through fishplate is cheap and bullet proof. I mainly use the Aristo screws and have not had a problem. Every spring I loosen the screw and then re-tighten them. For turnouts and areas I cut the track I use the Aristo rail clamps. They were more affordable and work great. Once balast is on you dont notice them (I think they are similiar to the Sun val clamps with the philips head screws) I like Minimans advice and will go that route when needed.

 

[minimans]

I would say use the screws with the Aristo track and then do what minimans suggested. The Screw through fishplate is cheap and bullet proof. I mainly use the Aristo screws and have not had a problem. Every spring I loosen the screw and then re-tighten them. For turnouts and areas I cut the track I use the Aristo rail clamps. They were more affordable and work great. Once balast is on you dont notice them (I think they are similiar to the Sun val clamps with the philips head screws) I like Minimans advice and will go that route when needed.

Try East coast Rovers for the screws!