Through the wall electrics.

Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
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Hi all.
In the next part of the, 'Idiot's Guide to the Garden Railway', comes the question of voltage drop. I will be connecting the MTS III and transformer through the wall for track power and separately analogue-powered points.
I only have to have a run of 5 metres for each. The points are no problem as they will only require lighter wire but my question relates to providing track power. I have read that heavier cable is advised and so I plan to use an old strimmer cable which is too thick to attach directly to the MTS III. I intend to run thin cable through the wall and then attach the two using a waterproof junction box the other side of the wall. This will mean a narrower hole through the utility room wall which keeps important people happy.
Is this fair enough?
Trevor
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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Sounds a fair plan, suggest that you strip and solder protect the ends as they can easily fray. Plus it also helps prevent the important part ie the connection outside from corrosion.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,671
555
Tamworth, Staffs.
I know 'we' are not actually talking mains voltages here, but for everybody's piece of mind, consider a local electrician (or jobbing-builder-type) who will have a suitable drill to make a sensible hole, and supply you with an offcut of plastic conduit and coupler for the back of your box outside..

Right tools and materials, make a job easier, and the installation should then give years of trouble-free use.

If you find the right person, who is interested, you may even get 'mate's rates'?
Oh, and the cost in comparison to the whole enterprise, is minimal.
 
P

perpetualnewbie

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I must admit I always lose peace of mind when electricians get involved. They're essential for making sure mains stuff that's covered by lots of regulations meets the standards of those regulations. In my limited experience, for work outside the standard regulated stuff, it can be hit and miss whether they'll really be helpful or whether they'll try to fit it into a standard rule that doesn't really apply. If you know someone and know they understand, fantastic! If not it may make things harder.

A suitable drill bit for getting a small wire through a wall is not expensive. Other than that it's not really a specialist job.
 
Madman

Madman

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25 Oct 2009
13,126
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Pennsylvania, USA
If you are thinking of using a smaller wire diameter in order to make the connection to your MTS equipment, I would suggest you find another way to keep the large wire size right up to the connection point.

Think of a water pipe. If you push water through a one inch pipe and the pipe narrows to a half inch one, the water coming out of the end of the pipe is only going to have the volume that a half inch pipe can allow.
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
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Thanks for the advice. I have a suitable drill bit, conduit etc. I have wired up mains items before so I'm not too worried about that aspect.
With regard to the water pipe scenario: what I do want, if not my original plan, is a simple way of connecting heavy gauge wire to the small spring contacts on the MTSIII.
Any suggestions, otherwise it is go with Plan A.
Trevor
 
P

perpetualnewbie

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30 Apr 2019
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United Kingdom
Hmm, I think I know the kind of contact. Can you just shave the last quarter inch or so of the wire down?
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I must admit I always lose peace of mind when electricians get involved. They're essential for making sure mains stuff that's covered by lots of regulations meets the standards of those regulations. In my limited experience, for work outside the standard regulated stuff, it can be hit and miss whether they'll really be helpful or whether they'll try to fit it into a standard rule that doesn't really apply. If you know someone and know they understand, fantastic! If not it may make things harder.

A suitable drill bit for getting a small wire through a wall is not expensive. Other than that it's not really a specialist job.
As I mentioned earlier of you Solder the ends carefully they should be ok to fit. Just screw round the wire so that it becomes good and tight and be modest with the application of Solder and all should be well.
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
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Thanks all.
Proper soldering and rigidly fixed cabling seems the way to go.
Will keep you informed as it proceeds. Be ready for more!!
Trevor
 
P

Paul M

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25 Oct 2016
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Royston
How about using suitable crimp terminals? There's ring or blade types depending on what you're terminating to
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,378
604
North West Norfolk
Thanks for the advice. I have a suitable drill bit, conduit etc. I have wired up mains items before so I'm not too worried about that aspect.
With regard to the water pipe scenario: what I do want, if not my original plan, is a simple way of connecting heavy gauge wire to the small spring contacts on the MTSIII.
Any suggestions, otherwise it is go with Plan A.
Trevor
Just make sure that where the cable exits the external wall, it either drops to its next destination and then enters the next junction box from underneath, or it enters the back of an IP65 box and it, and the hole into your house, is sealed with mastic.

The first option means that any rain on the cable will run down, and drop off to the ground, rather than penetrating any important areas.
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
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Armagh
Hi all. Just working on the inside to outside wiring. I have used a combination of advice given to me on this thread. It's good to have independent control of engines without wiring sections. The points wiring is more than enough and I don't think it will be long before a couple of point decoders turn up. The wiring is not the tiniest but things are operating. The small KOF diesel might end up as the station shunted as it does not like the apparently worn frog on one of the points many yards, (metres), down the line.
The 'dark side's is actually a ray of sunshine. Thanks to those who persuaded me early on.
Trevor


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Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
229
8
Eastern MA
Electricity is not restricted like water is. A short small wire will not cause a voltage drop, but if real small like 30 guage it can act like a fuse even if only 1 inch long.
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
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Armagh
Thanks Dan. I have used nothing as light as that. I've use speaker cable for power feeds with 16 swg wire for connections.
Trevor
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,378
604
North West Norfolk


 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,042
463
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hi all. Just working on the inside to outside wiring. I have used a combination of advice given to me on this thread. It's good to have independent control of engines without wiring sections. The points wiring is more than enough and I don't think it will be long before a couple of point decoders turn up. The wiring is not the tiniest but things are operating. The small KOF diesel might end up as the station shunted as it does not like the apparently worn frog on one of the points many yards, (metres), down the line.
The 'dark side's is actually a ray of sunshine. Thanks to those who persuaded me early on.
Trevor


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I think that all looks fine, personally I would stay clear of the Point Decoders. Outside they may survive but not forever so they would need a Dry Environment giving you all the issues of having them indoors and more wire through the walls. How do I know this? Well we used a couple of LGB Reverse Loop Midules outside and after 5 years inside a Plastic Box under a Mountain hey still failed. Pretty much a similar unit to the LGB Point Decoders. A weather proof Box for your Switches or even just a cover will make sure that they will,be trouble free for a very long time indeed.
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
121
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Armagh
Thanks Jon.
That was timely. The switch boxes are covered temporarily at the moment but I am going to make a more permanent small structure to keep the elements off. I am still at the stage when I can't get used to the idea that I can keep buildings safely outside either given the weather we get.
I'll keep the pictures coming. The next step is to try and fit a decoder into an LGB 20600 orange Schoema, so I can get it up and running.
The next
 
Gizzy

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
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Hullo Trevor,

I will be posting the RJ 45 connector to you tomorrow.

Sorry for the delay....
 
Anglian

Anglian

Registered
23 Jul 2018
121
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Armagh
Hi Gizzy. Absolutely no need for any apology: it is very good of you to send one to me. No rush whatsoever.
Best wishes,
Trevor