Thermoelectric tram

Melbournesparks

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I was recently reading about thermoelectric generators. The thermoelectric effect was discovered in the early 19th century, it uses a temperature differential at the junctions of two different types of metal to generate electricity directly from a heat source. The effect also works in reverse, if a voltage is applied across the junctions one becomes hot and the other becomes cold. A common application of these devices is small scale cooling, like for computers of tiny beer fridges.

Despite it's early discovery and extreme simplicity thermoelectric power generation is limited to fairly niche applications. The Voyager space probes launched in the 1970's are powered by thermoelectric generators heated by radioactive decay. Voyager 1 is now the furthest distant artificial object from earth, having passed out of the solar system into interstellar space. After 38 years of operation it's thermoelectric generator still provides enough power for the radio transmitters. Closer to home thermoelectric generators heated by gas or kerosene were used for electroplating, and even powering radios.

So far as I know thermoelectricity has never been used to power a vehicle before, so I thought it would be fun to try and build one.

IMG_5728_zpsatqsemvu.jpg


A small thermoelectric module, commonly used for computer cooling. This will be the basis of this project. These cost about $3 from China.

IMG_5688small_zpsnvrcczhx.jpg


I made small methtylated spirit burner to provide the heat. Standard small scale live steam technology. :)

IMG_4572%20Medium_zpsyak3gnmy.jpg

IMG_4573%20Medium_zpsslafstrq.jpg


This is the complete generator unit all assembled. The burner heats a block of aluminium inside the firebox, which is attached to the hot side of the thermoelectric module. Heat is dissipated from the cold side by a CPU heatsink.

IMG_4569small_zpsmygstmz2.jpg


A test was made to see if the generator would actually work, and to confirm the rates of heating and cooling were adequate. Initial results were promising, so a small tram like vehicle was built for it to power.

IMG_4600%20Medium_zpsdkcgawep.jpg


The heatsink sits on the roof, with a cooling fan to draw air past the radiator fins. The tram is powered by a small 3v motor and home made gearbox.

IMG_5731small_zpsc1nqj6np.jpg


Of course it needed a paint job. I imagined it might have been used as an alternative to steam on unelectrified lines, so it's got a bit of a Sydney thing going on. This is the firebox end. The methylated spirit tank sits under the end platform.

IMG_5730small_zpsmgyuqunh.jpg


IMG_5729small_zpswgsjlbnb.jpg


IMG_5696small_zpsqul9c4mo.jpg


IMG_5701small_zpsdbkuhyg1.jpg


And of course a few photos actually running (in the rain!)

I'd say the experiment was a success, it actually works pretty well. The thermoelectric generator makes about 2.5v at 150ma, which is enough to not only power the motor but also the lights and cooling fan. It takes about five minutes to warm up to running temperature after lighting up, then trundles around quite happily as long as the fire is burning.

Based on how the tram runs it looks like it would be quite possible to build a moderately powerful locomotive with multiple thermoelectric modules.

So how does this compare to steam as a form of traction? In this small scale the efficiency is comparable, but I'd say steam would win on thermal efficiency in larger sizes. On the other hand it is extremely simple to build and operate, no pressure vessels or need to carry water.

Here's some dodgy hand held video of it running:

 
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dunnyrail

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That is certainly a miracle of Modern Science. Superb. May I make just one small suggestion, please fill your Meths with a Syringe to the actual amount taken by the Tank. As meths burns invisibly, a fire could easily turn all your lovely Tram Body to Ashes. Plus if you do the fill as you did on any of your LGB Track the plastic sleepers could suffer. Do not ask me how I know all this!

Looking forward to your next headlining project.
JonD
 

Trekk

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Just watched the video , like it, you could use these on a live steamer to power all your coach and running lights ( feel free to correctmeif I,m wrong , still got L plates on here )
 
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Melbournesparks

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That is certainly a miracle of Modern Science. Superb. May I make just one small suggestion, please fill your Meths with a Syringe to the actual amount taken by the Tank. As meths burns invisibly, a fire could easily turn all your lovely Tram Body to Ashes. Plus if you do the fill as you did on any of your LGB Track the plastic sleepers could suffer. Do not ask me how I know all this!

Looking forward to your next headlining project.
JonD

Yeah don't spill it like me! Lucky it evaporates in only a few seconds.

Just watched the video , like it, you could use these on a live steamer to power all your coach and running lights ( feel free to correctmeif I,m wrong , still got L plates on here )

You certainly could. The thermoelectric units are small and compact, so they would be well suited to generating auxiliary power on a steam locomotive. They could be heated by exhaust steam and cooled by the boiler feedwater, so there would be no penalty to efficiency. If I had a live steamer I'd be keen to give it a go!
 

trammayo

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I was recently reading about thermoelectric generators. The thermoelectric effect was discovered in the early 19th century, it uses a temperature differential at the junctions of two different types of metal to generate electricity directly from a heat source. The effect also works in reverse, if a voltage is applied across the junctions one becomes hot and the other becomes cold. A common application of these devices is small scale cooling, like for computers of tiny beer fridges.

Despite it's early discovery and extreme simplicity thermoelectric power generation is limited to fairly niche applications. The Voyager space probes launched in the 1970's are powered by thermoelectric generators heated by radioactive decay. Voyager 1 is now the furthest distant artificial object from earth, having passed out of the solar system into interstellar space. After 38 years of operation it's thermoelectric generator still provides enough power for the radio transmitters. Closer to home thermoelectric generators heated by gas or kerosene were used for electroplating, and even powering radios.

So far as I know thermoelectricity has never been used to power a vehicle before, so I thought it would be fun to try and build one.

IMG_5728_zpsatqsemvu.jpg


A small thermoelectric module, commonly used for computer cooling. This will be the basis of this project. These cost about $3 from China.

IMG_5688small_zpsnvrcczhx.jpg


I made small methtylated spirit burner to provide the heat. Standard small scale live steam technology. :)

IMG_4572%20Medium_zpsyak3gnmy.jpg

IMG_4573%20Medium_zpsslafstrq.jpg


This is the complete generator unit all assembled. The burner heats a block of aluminium inside the firebox, which is attached to the hot side of the thermoelectric module. Heat is dissipated from the cold side by a CPU heatsink.

IMG_4569small_zpsmygstmz2.jpg


A test was made to see if the generator would actually work, and to confirm the rates of heating and cooling were adequate. Initial results were promising, so a small tram like vehicle was built for it to power.

IMG_4600%20Medium_zpsdkcgawep.jpg


The heatsink sits on the roof, with a cooling fan to draw air past the radiator fins. The tram is powered by a small 3v motor and home made gearbox.

IMG_5731small_zpsc1nqj6np.jpg


Of course it needed a paint job. I imagined it might have been used as an alternative to steam on unelectrified lines, so it's got a bit of a Sydney thing going on. This is the firebox end. The methylated spirit tank sits under the end platform.

IMG_5730small_zpsmgyuqunh.jpg


IMG_5729small_zpswgsjlbnb.jpg


IMG_5696small_zpsqul9c4mo.jpg


IMG_5701small_zpsdbkuhyg1.jpg


And of course a few photos actually running (in the rain!)

I'd say the experiment was a success, it actually works pretty well. The thermoelectric generator makes about 2.5v at 150ma, which is enough to not only power the motor but also the lights and cooling fan. It takes about five minutes to warm up to running temperature after lighting up, then trundles around quite happily as long as the fire is burning.

Based on how the tram runs it looks like it would be quite possible to build a moderately powerful locomotive with multiple thermoelectric modules.

So how does this compare to steam as a form of traction? In this small scale the efficiency is comparable, but I'd say steam would win on thermal efficiency in larger sizes. On the other hand it is extremely simple to build and operate, no pressure vessels or need to carry water.

Here's some dodgy hand held video of it running:


Really brilliant lateral thinking and application.

It brought back memories of the science lessons at school! Whilst your post jogged my memory about bi-metals, the one thing that has stuck in my mind from those days though was the potato - stick two electrodes into it and you get a current! It works with other veg too.
 
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PhilP

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The electrodes being two dissimilar metals..

See how long you can run a quartz clock movement from an old lemon, an 'iron' nail and a thick bit of copper wire.. Lemon dries out long before it gives up otherwise..
 

beavercreek

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Well that is astonishing cross breeding of technologies.
Bl**dy marvelous! :clap::clap:
 

Rhinochugger

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I keep coming back to this - WANT ONE :D:D:D:D
 

Trekk

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Amazing what technology can do, if you had LEDs as opposed to filament bulbs then very little wattage required to light the whole set up
 

Melbournesparks

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I keep coming back to this - WANT ONE :D:D:D:D

Post here if you build one! The technology is very simple, they are easy to make.

Amazing what technology can do, if you had LEDs as opposed to filament bulbs then very little wattage required to light the whole set up

It does use LEDs, but the voltage is only just high enough to light them. I might fit a second thermoelectric module to bring the voltage up to around 5v.

IMG_5737small_zpsgkgg42wb.jpg


An actual picture in sunlight! Today is the shortest day of the year, the sun is very low in the sky in the depths of the southern winter.
 

JRinTawa

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That is brilliant. So good to see someone not only thinking outside the square but actually walking the walk as well. Brilliant. :clap:
 

Rhinochugger

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Post here if you build one! The technology is very simple, they are easy to make.

Come the winter (well the real one that is, not just the winter temperatures in June) .........................
 

FatherMcD

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This is absolutely fascinating. Everything I run so far is track powered and I hope to convert to battery. Then maybe someday...live steam. But this, I could do right away!

I also have a question about your track. At the start of the video the track looks like it is made of metal bar stock rather than rail shaped metal. Can you tell me more about that? Another thread perhaps?
 

Melbournesparks

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This is absolutely fascinating. Everything I run so far is track powered and I hope to convert to battery. Then maybe someday...live steam. But this, I could do right away!

I also have a question about your track. At the start of the video the track looks like it is made of metal bar stock rather than rail shaped metal. Can you tell me more about that? Another thread perhaps?

You certainly could use this mode of traction to run a railway, though to haul actual trains would require a locomotive with multiple TE units. It looks like it would be quite feasible, but no one has built one yet. Maybe next project.

The track is made from flat aluminium bar as a cost saving measure. It's a pretty common method of construction in Australia/NZ, commercially manufactured track is very expensive here. The rail is fitted into slotted wooden sleepers, or screwed down with aluminium brackets. There's some more pictures and info in this thread.
 

mike

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Stuff of stances fiction...brilliant..
 

playmofire

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Brilliant and cunning.

Would solid fuel tablets work OK?
 

Melbournesparks

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Brilliant and cunning.

Would solid fuel tablets work OK?

Anything that produces heat (it doesn't even need to burn) would work. The critical factor is the temperature difference between the hot and the cold side. Liquid nitrogen or dry ice on the cold side would also work well, though usually less practical unless you have a readily available source.
 

Northsider

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A really fascinating project, and a successful outcome. I like the idea of meths-fuelled electricity. One to stir the grey cells!