The Whareora & Glenbervie Branch Line

[Beddhist]

I`m in the early stages of track planning. We have a large "section", but there is almost no flat area, which makes building a railway a challenge. Here are some pix of where I think we will go. First, the siding/station area:



Looking the other way:



The steps on the right lead to the upper part of the section and is our way to work, so we need to walk right across this area. Something to bear in mind...



Now we head through the rose garden in which about this time of year the cherry tomatoes start to go crazy. Last year we had a job to stop them from invading our bed room on the left. 



The aim of the game here is to get around the back of the greenhouse at a height of about 1.6m above ground. I put the stakes in there as a guide. I`m thinking of attaching the track to the corners of the greenhouse. On one side or the other we have to leave a gap of about 1.5m to get the mower through. I think this will require a removable bridge.



Finally we aim for the bottom of that wooden strip. I envisage building a small retaining wall and a few trestle supports and follow that line up and past the car port and tin shed. This is already lined and I want to use that as a storage siding. (hole in the wall...) Another 50m of climb and a miracle later and we arrive at the top level. I don`t know what will happen there. A returning loop, I hope, but it will require some earth works.



At the beginning I can see two alternatives:

1. keep to the right of the roses and run an elevated track bed above the lawn. In fact, this was the original idea, but I can`t see any advantage in that right now.

2. go even further left and follow the long deck under the clothes lines, before heading out into thin air.

The track is code 250 alu from Microengineering, 3m of straight LGB and the switch is a USAT #6. I have about another 8m of alu track unassembled.

I don`t think the rail joiners quite cut it, unless the track is bolted down. I`m wondering whether I can find some M2 bolts and make fish plates.

After a lot of reading I still don`t know what kind of road bed I want to make.

 

[trammayo]

Re: A Train with No Name

There seems to be great potential in your garden - you could build a contour line even.

Plenty of M2 bolts about on ebay. Stainless steel would be the best choice. Socket head type is the best, as you can use an Allen key where a screwdriver might be difficult.

Looking forward to more!

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

Up the slope along the existing timber is pretty much along the contour, although I want to use that to gain height. I can't do that on the lawn, because the mower will rip it up. Unless - I used a tunnel section... Hmmm, perhaps for stage 3.

Do you think M2 bolts with fish plates will work? Ebay is not so cool here, we have TradeMe instead. Although postage on such small items might be ok.

 

[trammayo]

Re: A Train with No Name

Hi Peter.

The M2 bolts work fine with the Aristo connectors. However, if you are making prototypical fishplates and not using the LGB/& similar type track, then the rail profile could mean that the holes you drill in the plates (to accept the bolts) might weaken the plates because of a shallower rail profile not allowing a reasonable height.

Does that make sense?

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

Yes, I can see what you mean. I'm using code 250 alu track, so this is probably the case then. It might even weaken the rails themselves too much.

 

[sparky230]

Re: A Train with No Name

use hilman or similar rail clamps if you dont want to drill track, all my track is soldered apart from rail clamps on points, made them removalble incase of failure

 

[Cyclone]

Re: A Train with No Name

I would stay off the decking. A railway shouldn't invade. I would build a track bed in the border behind the stone retaining wall, giving you space for line side detailing. I would try an turn left away from the greenhouse and then swing round the bottom of the slope so you can mow the lawn easily. Then I would dig a cutting into the bank with the line, perhaps even switch backs?

Biggest nuisance is having to mow round bridges IMO .

Have a good butchers at other lines and see what they've done.
Bobg has a massive elevation in his garden (ooer).

 

[garrymartin]

Re: A Train with No Name

If I was building in that garden I would build a circular ground level track in the area between the veranda and the green house , raising the track to account for the slope. Once I had something up and running I would investigate the possibility of a branch or two using rack or adhesion climbing techniques to traverse the slopes . Owlpool and Stainzmiaster both have railways in sloping terrain I would check them out too :-\

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

Thanks to all for your hints.

I think I will do some experiments of my own for joining the rails to see what works best for me. I will probably end up with clamps.

Cyclone, I understand what you say about the deck. We have been here for two summers now and despite a sunsail the large deck has never been used for anything but walking across. In the summer sun it's too hot under the sail and at other times the wind rips through there. We just sit under the roof in front of the lounge. So, I'm quite happy to build a station/siding there, as long as we can still walk through. Perhaps I'll cover a part of it with plywood or whatever. I'll have to seek out Bobg's reports to see what he did.

When I was young and handsome (now I'm only 'and') we had a large HO layout, 3 loops over two large table tops. As soon as it was built I found out about building along the wall and I regretted what we had done: it looked too much like 'sausages in a pan', if you get my drift. For that reason I contemplated building on the flattish lawn only very briefly. It will not look good (to me) and you can only go round and round. Behind the greenhouse the ground falls away very steeply. This is not railway territory, unless I wanted to extend into the paddocks. (I even contemplated that, going for something like 1' gauge ride-on, but it gets swampy in winter and it would have to withstand cattle. Not worth the trouble, me thinks.)

Mowing around the bridges doesn't bother me, we do that for a living. Glyphosate will make that job a lot easier. A lot of things could be done under them, planting, rockery... I'll worry about that part later, once I HAVE a bridge.

I seem to remember having read some time ago about raising track bed using PVC pipes as posts and some kind of PVC tray for the road bed. (Perhaps it was cable trays?) I can't find that anywhere now. Lots of people use pipes as posts, but not the trays. Has anybody got a link or two? Perhaps it was guttering?

A rack line could be interesting...

Keep the ideas coming, folks. I'm grateful for them.

Cheers,
Peter.

 

[maxi-model]

Re: A Train with No Name

There is a company in the UK called Filcris that produce a very neat system post and trackbed system with recycled plastic materials. Take a look here http://www.filcris.co.uk/products.htm

Ok, you are on the other side of the world but you may have a company there making a similar re-cycled material. All Filcris' stuff is just bandsawed out of boards, the garden railway system is just a clever marketing application of this material. Study what they have done and you may be able to replicate it. There are one or two on this site that have used this stuff. Strongly concidering it myself to aleviate an incline issue in my garden.

It's that or take a chainsaw to the patio decking and re-cyle it !

Max.

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

Thanks Max. I have seen this done before from HDPE 'lumber'. I haven't found this in NZ yet, but there are these two:

http://www.durafence.co.nz/www/faq.html

http://www.niagara.net.nz/pages/composite-decking/ This one imported from the US. I don't think this kind of thing is made in our small islands, but I could be surprised. I will need to check out our hardware chain stores to see what they have available. This has potential. I'm thinking of making a wider tray out of this and a gravel road bed, both to allow for heat expansion and at a height of more than 1.5m I'm a little nervous about derailments. Cabling tray keeps flashing through my mind...

 

[maxi-model]

Re: A Train with No Name

Cabling tray keeps flashing through my mind...

Yes but what is the C of G of your loco and rolling stock ? That might have to be pretty deep cabling tray to keep it from toppling and crashing to the ground. What if a wagon or loco gets jammed and the whole lot is pulled over on a curve. Take a look at this thread http://www.gscalecentral.net/general-g-scale/quinton-line-the-great-timber-train-disaster-of-2014/?topicseen
Check rails as a partial solution ?
Max.

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

I don't have a lot of rolling stock yet. I was just thinking if the tray is wide enough to hold a wagon that fell on its side... Without a ballast bed anything going off the rails will take a dive. Termite & Sandstone has installed wire railings on its trestles to prevent that. Over the rose bed I would be quite happy for a ladder only, it's not very high off the ground.

 

[gregh]

Here`s my suggestions for free which is probably what they`re worth.  But you asked for it.
1.  As Cyclone suggested - keep off that deck.  Especially if you`re considering a station/yard there.  You don`t want to be kneeling down to do shunting  and you don`t want to be tripping over trains.  (Rule 1a for visitors is "don`t step over trains".  Rule 1b  is don`t park trains where they need to be stepped over.)
Maybe you can use the edge of the deck IF you can stand at ground level next to it.  In front of those roses in the raised bed looks perfect to me, and it`s lower so your grades down the yard will be less.  Maybe your track can go under the deck?
2. Stations/yards should be raised - minimum 1`,  3` is best.
3. Your yard looks just made for a line winding across and back at more or less ground level instead of 6` high elevated sections.
4. If you must use elevated sections, TRY for at least some of it to make it look like REAL bridges. I really get turned off by long elevated  (so-called ladder trackes) tracks serpentining around the yard which look totally unrealistic.  If you must use some  elevated non-realistic looking construction, plant lots of bushes under it to hide it.
5. Do you have star pickets in NZ?  -  triangular steel used for fences with lots of holes along it.  My mate uses them to support his baseboards - just pound them into the ground as far as possible, then use an angle grinder to cut to the required height.  Bolt cross timber to them and lay longitudinal  decking for the track.
This pic doesn`t show the star pickets too well, but the boards show better.  He has planted lavender bushes under his.


and finally,
6.  Start with a small plan but just have in the back of your mind where stage2 might connect (and stage 3 etc).  Don`t try and design it all at once. As you start to operate you`ll find what works and what doesn`t and what you want and what you don`t want.

Keep us posted with your progress.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Re: A Train with No Name

5. Do you have star pickets in NZ? - triangular steel used for fences with lots of holes along it.

We got Warratah posts.....

 

[gregh]

these are star pickets:


waratah post look similar. You don`t need galvanised ones.

 

[Beddhist]

Re: A Train with No Name

Greg, thank you very much for the trouble you took writing all this up. I think you have just about convinced me to stay off the deck. It just seemed so logical, seeing it's not really used for anything.

I actually went outside in the dark just now to check whether going under it would be feasible. I'm thinking of going under in the corner and coming out near the bank. I could have a loop that doesn't look like one. The deck is only two steps above ground and I would have to build a trap door or two for access. I'm not sure I'm up to that, but I have a friend who is...

Your point about the station being raised makes a lot of sense. It would have to be a dead end station and I can't picture how to get down to ground level from there. Around the back of the greenhouse, most likely.

Great idea to use warratahs. I have used them to build a garden fence. But why should they not be galvanised? They sit in the ground and rust. Not that I think you can buy them galvanised, anyway.

Thanks,
Peter.

 

[gregh]

Re: A Train with No Name

Looks like you Kiwis call them Y posts or waratah (why steal the name of an aussie flower?)
Yes, they look look like our star post/pickets - good thick black steel. The first ones that google showed me looked like flimsy galv things which were not what I was referring to.
Next time I'm round my mate's place I'll take some pic of how he arranges the supports on the Y posts. (will be a week or more as he is OS)

The main thing I have learnt is that stations/yards need to be easily reached, with any sidings at the front and running lines at the back. That way you can do your shunting or putting trains on/off the track where you can reach, while mainline trains can operate.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Re: A Train with No Name

The Waratah Fence post is the brand (trademark) that was owned by BHP in Australia and is now owned by OneSteel. The Waratah fence post or better known in Australia as its trademark "Star" post was patented in 1921.

 

[Cyclone]

Re: A Train with No Name


This is how I have built behind a retaining wall.