The Last Straw (for my cattle wagons that is)

[David1226]

In the topic about the recent Reading Large Scale show, I made reference to the fact that I had recently completed a pair of cattle wagons for The Claptowte Railway. I have not opened any topics for some time, so I thought I would post some details in case it is of any interest to anyone. They are not as detailed or exotic as some cattle wagons posted by other members but they are sufficient for my needs. As with all freight stock on The Claptowte Railway, they started life as LGB Toytrain items, in this case the van. Much chopping (the whole sides taken out), scraping and scribbing of plasticard sheet and strip. Propably my most drastic modification to date. The usual extras, Al Kramer wheels, plasticard British style brake levers, GRS lamp irons, to complete. The roofs, in this case, were left over from other kit bashes.

The last straw, lterally, was cutting up the straw to approximate scale size to go on the floors. That took almost as long to build the wagon. I am going to resist the temptation to add scale cow pats, these wagons are freshly cleaned out with fresh straw layed.

David

 

[pugwash]

I'm astounded, I also liked to use Toy Train bases to improve on, but this is incredible! ???

 

[ge_rik]

An excellent bash. The results are very good indeed - no need at all for an apology. I've used Toytrain chassis as well but I wish I'd thought of your idea of using a van body as the basis rather than starting from a flat wagon.

Rik

 

[cbeckett]

Great models! Tip - spray the real straw - particularly the ends - with ladies hair-spray (cheapo) - will stop the wet getting in! Nice job though....

 

[gregh]

Great modelling David.

Interesting that they put straw in cattle wagons. I don't think they did here in Oz. Just a slatted floor to let the er droppings, fall through.

 

[ge_rik]

Great modelling David.
Interesting that they put straw in cattle wagons. I don't think they did here in Oz. Just a slatted floor to let the er droppings, fall through.

Interesting, Greg. It might have become a modelling convention over here which is not actually based on real life. I know, in the early days of railways they used to put lime down in trucks and then stopped the practice (at least that's another modelling convention). I've done a quick search and couldn't find anything on't web about it.

I used chopped hessian in my cattle wagons - but I'm beginning to wonder now whether I did that because of modelling conventions (ie every other modeller does it) rather than because I know they used to do it for real.......

Rik

 

[David1226]

Great models! Tip - spray the real straw - particularly the ends - with ladies hair-spray (cheapo) - will stop the wet getting in! Nice job though....

Good tip Chris. I fixed my straw in place with photo mount spray. Sprayed the floor first, sprinkled on the straw, then gave it another spray. Seems rock solid at the moment. I do not have to worry about wet getting in, as I'm an indoor modeller. I suppose perfumed hair spray would have the advantage of covering any unfortunate natural odours coming from the cattle truck.

David

David

 

[cbeckett]

David - good comment - "when you're up to your neck..." etc...

Now, without being too contentious, I hope, I wonder if anyone has modeled the cattle wagons used in WW2 to ferry PoWs, and other extremem unfortunates. Not as working models, but perhaps in a museum somewhere, as a reminder....? They probably WOULDN'T have had straw.

And a strange fact coming out of my research: 133,000 horses were sent from Oz to Gallipoli, to the beach, Egypt and the Western Front.,

One returned. I wonder what happened, apart from the obvious, to the rest? Guess it was too expensive to bring them back.

Sorry if I've gone off thread, Moderators!

But yes, any spray thingy that our SWMBOs use on their hair, is good to seal, and delay decay, (not necessarily of the SWMBOs), of most other cellulose/hydrocarbon type materials...and also allows you to paint them as they harden off. PEG = polyethylene-glycol, has the same effect, dehydrator, as used to preserve the Mary Rose shipwreck, but expensive to buy (aka Ronseals Window Preservative as marketed in the UK)

 

[ge_rik]

Been doing a bit of digging and it seems they used to use lime wash to disinfect cattle wagons up until 1924 when the law was changed and thereafter phenol was used as a disinfectant. However, the Act stated that wagons had to be disinfected as soon as possible after livestock had been transported and any sawdust, sand, litter or dung should be treated with quicklime or destroyed by fire.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksro/1927/289/resources

It doesn't specifically mention the use of straw but it does say:
"Every truck or other vehicle shall be provided at each end with spring buffers and the floor thereof, in order to prevent slipping, shall, in the case of a truck used for the carriage of cattle, be fitted with battens or other proper foot-holds, and in any other case either be so fitted or be strewn with a proper quantity of litter, or sand, or any other proper substance."

So, the question is, would straw have prevented slipping, would it have been regarded as 'a proper substance'? Seems to me that sand would have been a better covering for floors if the purpose would have been to prevent slipping. Then, of course, I suppose actual practice may be been different - maybe putting a layer of straw in the truck would have made it easier for the railway staff to 'muck-out' the wagon afterwards??

Any former railwaymen out there?

Rik

 

[ge_rik]

A bit more digging. These photos from the NRM website are really interesting ....
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66421-livestock-photos-from-the-nrm/

Looks like practices varied, in some cases there is straw in evidence in the wagons, and in other cases not. Maybe it varied according the the distances being travelled or the type of livestock being carried - or maybe just the whim of the staff at the departing station.

Rik

 

[David1226]

The above points regarding the use of straw got me wondering. I have childhood memories, from the 1950's, of visiting various cattle markets with my Grandparents. I remember most, if not all, of the cattle lorries having straw on the floor. I would have assumed railway wagons would have been similarly treated at that time. My own research is inconclusive. In one reference, which was really to do with cattle wagon livereies, I read that after the ban on the use of lime, the strong disinfectant used also acted as a paint stipper, so that whatever the original livery applied, the wagons soon took on the appearance of bare wood. The article also stated that when not carring livestock, the interiors of the cattle wagons were spotless, adding that every trace of poo and straw was removed. This was to help prevent the ever present threat of the dreaded Foot & Mouth disese. This comment would indicate that straw was used.
The bottom line appears to be that some railway companies used straw, others may not have done.

The company policy ot The Claptowte Railway is that all livestock will be transported on a bed of clean straw and that the wagons will be thorougly cleaned and disinfected after use. My models depict wagons with freshly layed straw, waiting to be loaded. (Rule 8)

David

 

[ge_rik]

David
Quite so..... I assume the sun-glassed individual has commandeered your bracketed plea of Rule 8
I think, on the Peckforton Light Railway, the staff of animal loving railwaymen would similarly want to see to the comfort of the stock (maybe both live- and rolling- ) in their care.

Rik

 

[ge_rik]

In one reference, which was really to do with cattle wagon livereies, I read that after the ban on the use of lime, the strong disinfectant used also acted as a paint stipper, so that whatever the original livery applied, the wagons soon took on the appearance of bare wood.
David

Hi David
I read somewhere that they didn't paint the inside of cattle trucks because paint in the early days was lead-based and they were afraid the stock would lick or chew at it. Looks like there are several interpretations of what was done and why.

Rik

 

[David1226]

Just tweaked the topic so that the photographs appear full size and do not have to be opened up to view`

David

 

[beavercreek]

A really good job done. From simple wagon to detailed stock car......excellent

 

[GAP]

David - good comment - "when you're up to your neck..." etc...

Now, without being too contentious, I hope, I wonder if anyone has modeled the cattle wagons used in WW2 to ferry PoWs, and other extremem unfortunates. Not as working models, but perhaps in a museum somewhere, as a reminder....? They probably WOULDN'T have had straw.

And a strange fact coming out of my research: 133,000 horses were sent from Oz to Gallipoli, to the beach, Egypt and the Western Front.,

One returned. I wonder what happened, apart from the obvious, to the rest? Guess it was too expensive to bring them back.

Sorry if I've gone off thread, Moderators!

But yes, any spray thingy that our SWMBOs use on their hair, is good to seal, and delay decay, (not necessarily of the SWMBOs), of most other cellulose/hydrocarbon type materials...and also allows you to paint them as they harden off. PEG = polyethylene-glycol, has the same effect, dehydrator, as used to preserve the Mary Rose shipwreck, but expensive to buy (aka Ronseals Window Preservative as marketed in the UK)

I can reinforce what GregH said about no straw in Aust wagons, I lived near a railway line that carried stock to a local meatworks and there was evidence of a stock train passing all along the ballast not to mention the lingering fragrance.

As for the WW1 horses.
They weren't allowed to come back because of quarantine laws and the soldiers had to pay for the stay if they did want to or were allowed to buy them and bring them back.
The soldiers were ordered to give them to the locals, but after seeing the way some animals were treated a large number of the soldiers took them for a last ride and shot them rather than turn them over.
There are a couple of stories of some being given to locals who cared for their animals and in one instance a soldier returned years later and swore that he saw his horse's features and nature in its offspring.

 

[3Valve]

Astonishing David, great to see you posting again. These builds are simply inspirational.

 

[David1226]

Cattle van N0 21 was one of the rake of 5 wagons that I submitted into the rolling stock category of the G Scale Society modelling competition at G-Rail 2016



David

 

[Madman]

Congratulations !! They look great and you certainly made good use of the Toy-Train box cars.

 

[GAP]

David - good comment - "when you're up to your neck..." etc...

Now, without being too contentious, I hope, I wonder if anyone has modeled the cattle wagons used in WW2 to ferry PoWs, and other extremem unfortunates. Not as working models, but perhaps in a museum somewhere, as a reminder....? They probably WOULDN'T have had straw.

And a strange fact coming out of my research: 133,000 horses were sent from Oz to Gallipoli, to the beach, Egypt and the Western Front.,

One returned. I wonder what happened, apart from the obvious, to the rest? Guess it was too expensive to bring them back.

Sorry if I've gone off thread, Moderators!

But yes, any spray thingy that our SWMBOs use on their hair, is good to seal, and delay decay, (not necessarily of the SWMBOs), of most other cellulose/hydrocarbon type materials...and also allows you to paint them as they harden off. PEG = polyethylene-glycol, has the same effect, dehydrator, as used to preserve the Mary Rose shipwreck, but expensive to buy (aka Ronseals Window Preservative as marketed in the UK)

I am looking for a good representation of chopped up sugar cane for my cane wagons.
I have looked at sacrificing an old millet straw broom but then SWMBO would have to walk every where.

Now ducking for cover and donning tin hat and flack jacket awaiting incoming.
It was not me your honour honest.