Testing the Deltang TX-21 with RCS OMEGA-3

[Tony Walsham]

Today I received a sample of the Deltang TX-21 for testing with my RCS OMEGA-3 ESC.

The TX-21 was slightly modified to replace the ON - ON direction switch with an ON - OFF - ON spring loaded toggle. This centre off position enables the TX operation to be compatible with the way the RCS system works. The inertia control was omitted.

I had no doubt the system would work and it did just fine. The only thing that concerned me was what the range would actually be, as Dan T says it is mainly for indoor layouts and small outdoor layouts. No need to worry with range. I couldn't get far enough away from the loco to actually run out of range at the extensive Large Scale logging layout that resides near where I live. The furthest I could get away from the loco was around 100 feet.
The loco responds exactly as if it was using a regular DX4e stick radio.

One handed operation is sweet. This TX is going to satisfy those naysayers that grizzle about the bulk of stick radios. I may substitute the knob with a slightly larger one.
The switch and knob travel extremities are a little different from a DX4e so I had to recalibrate the end points in the RCS brain, but once that was done it functioned perfectly.
I hooked up the MyLocosound whistle trigger input to the correct terminal on my ESC and off we went.
There was one small glitch that I need to ask DaveT about, as at one stage I managed to confuse the IC in my ESC.

It might even be possible to use the stock TX-21 direction switch with an RCS system, although I don't think so. My system relies upon having the spring loaded elevator stick rest in neutral (the middle) hence the ON - OFF - ON spring loaded toggle switch.

Nice bit of kit that is going to help do great things for my products.

 

[whatlep]

Now that's what I call an interesting post!

Tony - to be clear, will your ESCs be able to work as Deltang's do in terms of multiple locos being controlled simultaneously from the single transmitter?

 

[Tony Walsham]

Thanks for the reply.
As I understand it you can select any one of the 12 locos and control them one at a time. I don't believe the Deltang TX-22 can actually control multiple locos separately at the same time.
Even if you could there is a limit to how many you can actually physically control at the same time. Very few people can actually manage two locos, let alone more than that.

Basically the feature enables easy selection of a loco without requiring a switch in each loco. Bit hard to fit switches in 00 size. Not so with large scale. Really easy to have ON - OFF switches in our Large Scales.
It would require a complete revision of my operating program to be able to take advantage of the feature.
So basically the answer is no. However that is not hard and fast.

I need to get in touch with DaveT to discuss how we can co-operate, if he so desires, to achieve something useful.
My initial thoughts are to keep it as simple as possible. Hence the TX-21. If that works in the market place perhaps come up with something more elaborate at a future date.

 

[ge_rik]

Tony
Forgive me if I've got this wrong, but if you plugged the Deltang Rx101-22 receiver into the Omega-3, would it not then be compatible with the Tx22 transmitter?

http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx102a-22.... is - if it's technically possible. Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

Yes Rik.
You probably would be able to do that. Except that:
1. My IC is programmed a certain way and I don't want to have to change it.
2. You would still be faced with the problem of the way the direction change works. To be compatible with my ESC's the TX must use a centre off switch with "ON" either side of the centre position and a spring loaded return to the centre.
3. The cost. I basically use a low cost cloned DSM2 RX I also source in China. Way less expensive than Spektrum RX's

The only problem I face using the TX-21 is that it sends the sound trigger function via Ch # 5 which my IC cannot read. If Dave T can reassign that function to Ch # 2 or Ch # 4 it will be all set to go as is. If it cannot be reassigned then the user will have to resort to servo leads to use it as is.
My goal is not to reinvent the wheel, but rather provide access to an option of a small knob controlled handpiece that is compatible with my ESC's.

 

[ge_rik]

2. You would still be faced with the problem of the way the direction change works. To be compatible with my ESC's the TX must use a centre off switch with "ON" either side of the centre position and a spring loaded return to the centre.

Hi Tony
There is a version of the Tx22 which uses the direction switch and then the pot gives speed control over its entire sweep (rather than centre off). The direction switch is centre off but latches each way. That could either be used momentarily or presumably it could be replaced with a centre-biased switch

3. The cost. I basically use a low cost cloned DSM2 RX I also source in China. Way less expensive than Spektrum RX's

The tx101-22 rx retails for £12, so I don't think cost would be a big issue

The only problem I face using the TX-21 is that it sends the sound trigger function via Ch # 5 which my IC cannot read. If Dave T can reassign that function to Ch # 2 or Ch # 4 it will be all set to go as is. If it cannot be reassigned then the user will have to resort to servo leads to use it as is.

Probably the easiest way would be to use the servo leads.

For me, the great attraction of the Tx22 is the ability to control up to 12 locos from one handset. Whilst it is possible to set each one off and running and switch between them, I tend to have only one running at any one time - (I'm a bloke, I can't multi-task, just ask my wife!). All I have to do is remember which number on the selecta switch I've assigned each loco to.

As you say, the other great attraction is having a knob for speed control.

Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

Hi Rik.
All your points are valid for your usage.
However:
1. It has been my long time experience in this business Worldwide, that Large Scalers I deal with do not want a loco selector switch, as you can do the same thing by simply turning off the loco. What they do want is a small pocket size TX that permits one handed operation with the addition of at least some sound trigger functions.
2. My ESC's do not use that type of control. So it is not an issue with me.
This exercise is so that the TX-21 (or a derivative of it) can be used with my ESC's to cater for locos that require 3 amps or more at around 14.4 to 24 volts. A current and voltage capability that the Deltang range simply does not yet make.
I hope to be using a suitable Deltang RX/ESC for low power situations such as for the Bachmann Thomas series. They are quite happy with 9 - 12 volts.
3. Cost is a consideration. I already have the ESC's so the GBP 4.50 (about US$ 7) is hard to beat. I would rather put the difference into enhancing the TX to do precisely what I want them to do.
4. Yes it easy to use servo leads but they also cost. If it is possible for Dave T to reassign the single trigger function to another channel I can go back to not using servo leads at all with the DSM2 RX's I currently use.

 

[ge_rik]

Tony
Thanks for the reply. I see the points you are making re the Tx21 v the Tx22. Personally, I quite like having control of several locos from one handset without having to keep switching them on and off - but that maybe reflects the way I tend to run my railway.

The Deltang rx61 has eight outputs (two auto and the rest switched), so other features such as remote uncoupling, lights and sound can be added if needed.

I take your point about the voltage and current limitations of the present Deltang controller/receivers - but with the rx101-22 this is not a problem as it can be used with any ESC - and I know David T is developing a higher rated receiver/controller to add to the range.

So, it looks as if the two systems can work together as you have indicated.

Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

To each his own Rik.

Well actually the two ranges cannot work together as they come stock.
I know of no other ESC that works like mine does with the exception of the RailBoss from Del Tapparo.
I could make my ESC be compatible with any of the Deltang TX's but that would require some extensive and quite costly reprogramming. A lot more expensive than the way I am going about it. There are plenty of existing RCS ESC's out there that would need to be reprogrammed to get compatibility. Doing it the way I am will make the range backwardly compatible.

When I was making the old RCS line even an early TX would work with the latest ESC and vice versa. That product line lasted for over 15 years. A lot longer product life than TE ever managed. They had three different incompatible lines in the same time frame.

David T is proving incredibly helpful with this project and I have high hopes of success. From my first enquiry less than 2 weeks ago David T has modified a TX and delivered it to me from the UK. Great service!!

 

[whatlep]

It's very heartening to see two professionals (and potential competitors) in the r/c field working together. Kudos to both Tony and David T.

 

[ge_rik]

It's very heartening to see two professionals (and potential competitors) in the r/c field working together. Kudos to both Tony and David T.

Ditto!!
I too have found David T to be very helpful (and also very patient with my sometimes quite basic enquiries).
Rik

 

[Tony Walsham]

Time for an update.
Here is a pic of the updated 2.4 GHz TX20 handpiece from Deltang R/C:

More details.
One handed switching control is a breeze.
The spring loaded SPDT switch sets the direction.
The knob controls the speed.
Front left button is an illuminated ON-OFF switch. Blinks during binding.
The rear left button is for binding and controlling a servo output for a Kadee servo coupler.
Front right is a trigger for whistle/bell.
Rear right is a trigger for whistle/bell.
Range is at least 100+ feet. A bit less behind buildings.
Can be used with any RCS ESC using operating program AV1.
Also compatible with any RCS EVO ESC.
Also compatible with pretty well any centre off ESC such as those commonly found in the UK.

More details in a couple of weeks.

 

[spoz]

VG*.......

 

[PhilP]

Er.. Tony, RC has obviously changed a lot from my days of fettling 27MHz am kit for friends..
Where can I find a quick overview (idiots guide?) to what all the new acronymns, ECS, AV1, RCS, EVO et al mean.. AND, how it all hangs together these days?

Just getting back into this, and had thought about modding garage door controllers.. From the few threads I have picked up here, some have tried/done it with mixed results.
Thanks in advance,
PhilP

 

[Tony Walsham]

Hello Philip
A lot of the abbreviations refer to my stuff such as;
RCS is the abbreviated name of my business. Remote Control Systems
AV1 is the operating program.
EVO is a line of ESC's I made some time ago.

ESC is short for Electronic Speed Controller and is used right through the R/C industry.
I do have a Glossary of terms on my website. http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/beginners

 

[PhilP]

Ah, a link that says 'beginners'..
I know my place!

Many thanks..
PhilP.