Suitable wire for 24v.

Eaglecliff

Eaglecliff

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I’ve just come across a few metres of single-conductor wire from my 00/0 days which I could use up if it’s suitable for 24v. The label on the reel says “1/0.6”. It also says “356-404” which I imagine is a stock or general product number. It’s 60 years since I got my physics 0 level; HELP! (Please...) or I could just use it double...
 
PhilP

PhilP

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Well...............................

The rating for 1/0.6 single-strand wire is 1.8 Amps @ 1,000 Volts RMS maximum. So yes, theoretically, you would be OK..

However,
A single-strand wire, clamped or soldered, will vibrate in our environment and this will cause it to fracture and fail over time. - This is made worse, if you 'nick' the conductor when you strip it.

We used to melt the insulation with the tip of a soldering iron, then pull the insulation from the conductor with our finger-nails..

I would suggest you use it for links on circuit boards, and for roughing-up circuits on the bench? - Then replace with stranded hook-up wire for the finished job.

PhilP.
 
Eaglecliff

Eaglecliff

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Well...............................

The rating for 1/0.6 single-strand wire is 1.8 Amps @ 1,000 Volts RMS maximum. So yes, theoretically, you would be OK..

However,
A single-strand wire, clamped or soldered, will vibrate in our environment and this will cause it to fracture and fail over time. - This is made worse, if you 'nick' the conductor when you strip it.

We used to melt the insulation with the tip of a soldering iron, then pull the insulation from the conductor with our finger-nails..

I would suggest you use it for links on circuit boards, and for roughing-up circuits on the bench? - Then replace with stranded hook-up wire for the finished job.

PhilP.
Thanks, Phil. Knew I could rely on you!
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Actually, the solid vs stranded is an interesting subject. Clearly in most protected environments, stranded is more flexible, easier to use, etc. But outdoors, stranded, if exposed to moisture is less tolerant and fails sooner. That is because each individual strand can be "attacked" on it's entire surface, as opposed to a single large conductor where most of the copper is "inside".

Adequately protecting stranded wire can involve anti-corrosion pastes, or "liquid rubber", and care should be taken that water cannot "wick" into the jacket (it will get into the spaces between the strands).

I have used very large gauge stranded wire, with fewer, larger diameter strands, like we wire up electric ovens and stoves here in the US.

The more common choice is "landscape wire" usually composed of many fine strands, and corrosion and oxidation can literally "eat it up".

So, in my opinion, solid large gauge wire lasts best, but is more trouble to wrestle into place. Flexibility is usually not a consideration, since your track is really not moving back and forth.

Greg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Actually, the solid vs stranded is an interesting subject. Clearly in most protected environments, stranded is more flexible, easier to use, etc. But outdoors, stranded, if exposed to moisture is less tolerant and fails sooner. That is because each individual strand can be "attacked" on it's entire surface, as opposed to a single large conductor where most of the copper is "inside".

Adequately protecting stranded wire can involve anti-corrosion pastes, or "liquid rubber", and care should be taken that water cannot "wick" into the jacket (it will get into the spaces between the strands).

I have used very large gauge stranded wire, with fewer, larger diameter strands, like we wire up electric ovens and stoves here in the US.

The more common choice is "landscape wire" usually composed of many fine strands, and corrosion and oxidation can literally "eat it up".

So, in my opinion, solid large gauge wire lasts best, but is more trouble to wrestle into place. Flexibility is usually not a consideration, since your track is really not moving back and forth.

Greg
Aha, welcome to the cooker cable club, Greg. Can I sign you up as a member? :p:p Up to now, I have been the President, Chairman, Secretary, Accountant and sole member of the club. I even had one person admonish me for being irresponsible as someone buying the property might be tempted to connect a cooker to the cable that was buried in the garden :eek::eek:

I have used it to bisect my 300 ft circuit of track so that, in theory, my track volts only have to travel 75 feet before the meet some more track volts coming the other way. One end of the cooker cable is connected close to the main track feed and so far .................................. track power is pretty consistent all the way round, although I don't do the multiple heading that you do. My biggest current draw is 2 x Bachmann Connies double headed - I've no idea about the amerpage (I don't use smoke, and only have an MLS sound card in one of them) but the voltage draw still doesn't go above 12v
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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I would guess that cooker cable has fewer but larger gauge strands?

Yes voltage drop can be a big deal in some cases. In the US, many people concentrate on narrow gauge steam, they never ran fast, so losing a few volts in the wiring rarely becomes an issue.

But I am a "standard gauge" guy, running 1:29 and heavy mainline freight and passenger. so some trains will run at scale speeds of up to 90 smph (passenger) and 65-70 smph (fast freights)...

My dilemma was that there are some locos that struggle to get that speed, notably 3 axle Aristo diesels. With voltage drop by the wire, a little loss in connections, the 2-3 volts you lose in the decoder, I had several locos that unloaded, top speed was 62 scale miles per hour, and that was with 20v DCC on the rails.

Had to do a number of things to get just under 24v to the rails. Due to non-linearity of motors (voltage vs rpm is NOT linear), now the loco would hit 92, so plenty of margin to run at scale speeds, albeit normally about 45-55 .

Sign me up!

Greg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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I would guess that cooker cable has fewer but larger gauge strands?

Yes voltage drop can be a big deal in some cases. In the US, many people concentrate on narrow gauge steam, they never ran fast, so losing a few volts in the wiring rarely becomes an issue.

But I am a "standard gauge" guy, running 1:29 and heavy mainline freight and passenger. so some trains will run at scale speeds of up to 90 smph (passenger) and 65-70 smph (fast freights)...

My dilemma was that there are some locos that struggle to get that speed, notably 3 axle Aristo diesels. With voltage drop by the wire, a little loss in connections, the 2-3 volts you lose in the decoder, I had several locos that unloaded, top speed was 62 scale miles per hour, and that was with 20v DCC on the rails.

Had to do a number of things to get just under 24v to the rails. Due to non-linearity of motors (voltage vs rpm is NOT linear), now the loco would hit 92, so plenty of margin to run at scale speeds, albeit normally about 45-55 .

Sign me up!

Greg
In the UK, it's 6mm2, but has a fair few strands - it's definitely on the chunky side :devil::devil:
 
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Paul M

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In the UK, it's 6mm2, but has a fair few strands - it's definitely on the chunky side :devil::devil:
Depending on the size of the cooker of course, mine is wired with 10mm for any upgrades that may happen in future.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Yeah, it seems that there is a move towards 10 mm2 cable, which in some ways seems strange when cookers are becoming more economical in the drive to become eco-friendly, especially with induction hobs.
 
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Paul M

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Yeah, it seems that there is a move towards 10 mm2 cable, which in some ways seems strange when cookers are becoming more economical in the drive to become eco-friendly, especially with induction hobs.
Induction jobs are the problem. The one my wife wanted was about 40amps!(She actually got a plug in job). So if you're talking that sort of current well.....
 
beavercreek

beavercreek

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Yeah, induction hobs seem to be an environmental win as they work on magnetic induction rather than creating heat in a ring BUT they are very pokey with even the smaller 4 ring ones consuming 3kw so a 13 amp breaker and wiring is needed (usually means that only one or two rings can be on full power at the same time.
A 7.2kw induction hob (allowing all four or five rings to be full tilt) really needs 10mm cable (used to get away with 6mm)... which is, when three core) a real bugger to fit if you need to bend it!
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Interesting - our new (third in 7 years) cooker is induction, has 5 rings and requires a 32 amp feed.

It also has a 'high boost' to all five rings and the main oven, which means that it gets them up to heat quicker than normal.

I s'pose the principal remains around Mr Diversity that you're not going to have them all on boost at the same time :think::think::think:

As for the third cooker in 7 years, each one has been more expensive and upmarket than the last, for various reasons of failure. The current one ('scuse the pun) is an Italian Bertazzoni.
 
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Paul M

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which is, when three core) a real bugger to fit if you need to bend it!
More to the point, none of the supposedly suitable fittings actually have enough room to fit the stuff! It's an electrician's biggest problem, the switch will take the cables, but the switch box won't, and as you move up in size, the problem gets worse
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Wasn't he their last President....?

Bunga Bunga! :rofl:

Jon.
Yes, he's had to diversify a bit - keep a low profile nod, nod, wink, wink.
 
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Paul M

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Yes, he's had to diversify a bit - keep a low profile nod, nod, wink, wink.
Not so much Bunga Bunga at the moment though, he's getting over the virus
 
Eaglecliff

Eaglecliff

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I’ve been otherwise occupied for the past couple of days (flu jab, Japanese visitor, weekly shop for all the things Sinsberries home deliveries miss, lose, substitute, don’t sell, have run out of, &c., plus sorting out the courtesy car - thankyou, lady - I use the word advisedly - who sideswiped our car in Tesco’s car park, and fled) and am quite overwhelmed at the responses my simple question has elicited. Thanks to you all. I’m still trying to work out where to put the feeds to the revised layout - cold wet towel round the head may help.... then I’ll be able to use up my dwindling stock of electric string...
 
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Paul M

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I’ve been otherwise occupied for the past couple of days (flu jab, Japanese visitor, weekly shop for all the things Sinsberries home deliveries miss, lose, substitute, don’t sell, have run out of, &c., plus sorting out the courtesy car - thankyou, lady - I use the word advisedly - who sideswiped our car in Tesco’s car park, and fled) and am quite overwhelmed at the responses my simple question has elicited. Thanks to you all. I’m still trying to work out where to put the feeds to the revised layout - cold wet towel round the head may help.... then I’ll be able to use up my dwindling stock of electric string...
If you put a diagram on here, someone will help
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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so the question you asked in post one was what wire gauge.

Basically you need to describe the "load" on the wire.

Number of locos simultaneously, lighted coaches, sound units, etc.

That will describe the load at the track.

Now the distance from the track to the power supply is important, the more length, the more loss in the wire.

Also, you did not ask, but later implied how many connections and where, and Paul rightly asked you for a diagram.

So, more information will yield a useful answer. If no more information is available, then I say get wire the diameter of a horses leg, and then it will work for anything. (clearly I am being facetious)

The whole idea is sizing the wire to the load...

Greg