Starting my First Railway

[BakerJohn]

Hello all,

I have acquired some track, a loco with matching rolling stock, and begun plans for converting a separate train (to be purchased later). It is now time for me to begin planning and constructing my first garden railway. I took the time to take a few measurements and draw out one plan last night, but this morning I've decided I'd like to add height to my railway. I've read on another website that prototypical construction includes grades no steeper than 2% (considered mountain grade), but model railways may go as high as 4%. I am looking for input on this topic, experiences, train operation, etc before I contnue my planning. If it is of any help, my plan is to run a LGB Forney [SRRL #10] and a Bachmann Toby the Tram (my favorite when I was a kid). I have plans to convert Toby to Battery power, but I'm not sure I want to do so with my Forney (so, I may power some of the track). Again, any input you can give would be greatly appreciated!

~ John

 

[idlemarvel]

If your plot of land is not flat then you could consider keeping your track level (which IMO is the best idea) but use the natural land rise and fall to give you the height variation. If your plot is flat then you can have grades of the order you mention. If your layout is based on narrow gauge locos then they prototypically manage grades steeper than standard gauge, and much sharper curves. The other major factor to consider is what height your layout will be, ground level or raised off the ground to a "more comfortable" height. See if you can find someone or some club near where you live, and have a look at their layout before you commit too much. Maybe someone on this forum lives in or near MA.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yep, railways work best when they're level, and so do the models. So you can take advantage of undulations in the garden either to do a bit of cut and fill - i.e. embankments and cuttings (I did that on the WWSR) but my current garden doesn't lend itself to that sort of thing, so I've had to go for some gentle - ish gradients.

The gradients have lead me into the world of double heading which gives a bit of added ....................fun?

4% = 1 in 25 (is that right) which is OK for a model. It all depends on the loco, its weight and adhesion, and the length of train.

Thomas and Percy attacked my grades OK when they visited with Thomas hauling two LGB coaches and Percy on two troublesome trucks, but I don't think they'd haul much more.

A Bachmann 10-wheeler will do four Fn3 (1:20.3) bogie vehicles without too much diffculty and I think my gradients in one place are a little bit stiffer than 1 in 25 but not much.

Radius of curves also impacts on the traction, and my minimum diameter is 8ft.

 

[Madman]

We'll be looking forward to watching your progress, John.

 

[KentKeith]

Hi there,

My track started on the level but in the end I built some mountains and spirals to add some interest to the line and this is what it looked like when it was under construction:



I can't tell what the gradients are as the only measuring tool I've used is one of my late father's spirit levels and it seems to have worked for me. One important thing to bear in mind is to use the largest radius curves possible where the track is curving on the climb.

...... and what it looks like later:

 

[BakerJohn]

Thank you all for your input so quickly! Keith, your layout is amazing!
Unfortunately I'm the youngest person on the property, so I have to get permission before I can do much. My railway certianly won't look anything like Keith's for a long time.
This is a drawing of what I'm thinking I'd like to do. At this zoom level you cannot really see this clearly, so allow me to explain: The west branch line is at ground level and the rest of the layout (starting at the Red zone to the North is on a built-up bed about 12" higher. The loop at the end of the yard is running over the branch. Overall, the space is about 35' x 22'. At the moment, the east garden (green) doesn't exist. So, that would be my first project.

 

[phils2um]

Hi John - it looks interesting with lot going on in not much space. Beware of the reverse loops though, they could cause a wiring nightmare for track power. Particularly the one created in the west green triangle.

Edited: My dyslexia set in! It's the loop in the other "west" i.e. east green triangle that scares me!

 

[Paul M]

I think it's a great plan, but I hope you're going to go slowly and build a bit at a time. Trying to do too much at once could lead to problems and despondency

 

[idlemarvel]

Very interesting use of space. FWIW I think I would reduce the number of reverse loops (I think you have three if not four) and level crossings and make the station piece a bit longer (I assume the bit with all the switches is a station). Bit hard to tell without a scale but some of the platform sections look a bit short to accommodate the length of trains that would do a layout of this size justice. One of the lessons I have learned about outdoor layouts compared to rigid-board indoor layouts is to keep it simple. Sprung points/switches on the reverse loops and passing loops for example rather than motorised switches. Finally I would say when you come to lay the track don't think you have to make it geometrically rigid - look at Keith's layout, sure there are straight sections but lots of meandering curves of differing radius to fit in with the (in his case man-made) landscape.

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you all for your input so quickly! Keith, your layout is amazing!
Unfortunately I'm the youngest person on the property, so I have to get permission before I can do much. My railway certianly won't look anything like Keith's for a long time.
This is a drawing of what I'm thinking I'd like to do. At this zoom level you cannot really see this clearly, so allow me to explain: The west branch line is at ground level and the rest of the layout (starting at the Red zone to the North is on a built-up bed about 12" higher. The loop at the end of the yard is running over the branch. Overall, the space is about 35' x 22'. At the moment, the east garden (green) doesn't exist. So, that would be my first project. View attachment 233278

As has been said there would appear to be 3 or 4 reverce loops in this plan so perhaps full Batty Control would be your best bet. I imagine that the Forney will be convertable, in USA you have the advantage of Legal Radio Air Wire, well worth looking into.

http://www.cvpusa.com/airwire_system.php

There are those that would disagree that Battery and Live Steam are the future for Garden Railways, but in your case at an early start why go any other way? On the basis that less is more 3-4 nice working battery locomotive with sound will be much more enjoyable than a fleet of perhaps dozens of locomotives that hardly ever get used.

As for your Track plan I would go ahead with that first loop then start to consider before you move forwards what do you want to fo your Railway and want it to be?

1 - just to watch trains go round
2 - have prototype operations
3 - a test track for things you want to build
4 - main line drag type of line
5 - logging line
6 - backwoods secondary line

If 2 then you may need to rethink that plan, suggest a while reading the 2 major Model Railway Mags in the US, Garden Railways of course but Model Railroader as well. Many of the aspects of the smaller scales can be scaled up, not least Operations. On my line I have Car Cards and Waybills to move Wagons around in a prototype manner. Not so common in Garden Railways but a few of us do it.

At your current age unless you have any disabilities a Ground Level Line with just a raised bit for more interesting running should be fine. Try to keep gradient to max 1:36 or so. That is 1 inch climb every yard of track, I do not do % for gradients!

You could do a lot worse than looking at
ge_rik 's blog for inspiration and how to do things not least his Operations and Batery Control methods.

Good luck with your Railway and keep,us posted with some pictures when you get started.

 

[BakerJohn]

My plan of attack here is full battery power and definitely it will be a build over time, which most likely means the final design will change. I do like the idea of incorporating more movement into the layout, which will be easier to design in practicality than it is in a computer program. For this railway I am not focused on prototypical operation, since this is my first time doing this. It would be cool to do that someday, but, for now, I'm going to keep it simple. Part of the reason for that is there are young kids on the property and they won't be interested in that. They just want to see the train run.
I think I will probably start the railway by building the triangle on the east side with the north-most track hidden behind a series of bushes or other plants. If all goes as planned, once I add in the drop to ground level the incline will also be hidden, which I think will be a good thing.

 

[AustrianNG]

Don'r worry about gradients John - I have a 35 meter continuous climb on my layout at between 1 in 25 and 1 in 50.
Provided your locos are not "lightweight", they will cope fine.

This is the top station, you can see the switchbacks to the right and the main station in the background over a meter lower down.

 

[Capt. Jack]

Great start John. I recently started my layout and everyone on here has been a wealth of knowledge. I started with a upper loop and a lower loop and will expand from there. That way I get to run trains while I work on building the railroad. I found for me watching the trains go around keeps me motivated. I also agree that starting out smaller is a good idea because you will see things along the way that you will want to add and change. Looking forward to following your progress

 

[tac foley]

My only advice to you in the midst of all this good advice is to make all the bends as large as you can make 'em. I've only ever been invited to run on a couple of tracks that are not designed for Gauge 1 operations, and not even my 'bendy' Shay would go around their teeny R1-style curves.

That and one of them was also 32mm - something he'd neglected to mention on the invitation.

Nice layout though - lots of gnomes and seagulls on wires, just like the real thing...

tac

 

[PhilP]

My only advice to you in the midst of all this good advice is to make all the bends as large as you can make 'em. I've only ever been invited to run on a couple of tracks that are not designed for Gauge 1 operations, and not even my 'bendy' Shay would go around their teeny R1-style curves.

That and one of them was also 32mm - something he'd neglected to mention on the invitation.

Nice layout though - lots of gnomes and seagulls on wires, just like the real thing...

tac

NONE of my Gnomes are on wires!!
And seagulls will be shot on sight!

 

[BakerJohn]

My only advice to you in the midst of all this good advice is to make all the bends as large as you can make 'em. I've only ever been invited to run on a couple of tracks that are not designed for Gauge 1 operations, and not even my 'bendy' Shay would go around their teeny R1-style curves.

That and one of them was also 32mm - something he'd neglected to mention on the invitation.

Nice layout though - lots of gnomes and seagulls on wires, just like the real thing...

tac

That's a good though, Tac. I have been modifying my layout to reflect advice I've received, and I should probably look into increasing the curve radii. I was considering it already, but now I think I'll increase them to at least R2. I will end up having a few Bachmann coaches on my railway, as I mentioned before, and their Annie & Clarabel coaches (and probably the rest of the Thomas line) just barely make it around an R1 curve. Wheel grinding on curves may be prototypical, but it's not something I'm looking for in my garden.

 

[tac foley]

John - if you ever aspire to a little live steamer, please be advised that in spite of the fact that many of the four-coupled locos of both Roundhouse and Accucraft brands WILL go around R2, they really don't overly care for doing so.

There are few things more off-putting than having to tell a visitor that he won't be able to run his pride and joy on your track...

Figure out how much space you have to accommodate your trackage, and then fill those open areas with the biggest bends you can make - you will not be sorry in the end, although your pocket book might whimper a bit. Buying second-hand track is also a good plan - LGB track can take anything less than napalm before it' no longer useable.

tac

 

[maxi-model]

Very sound advise from Tac. The temptation with any first layout is to cram as many operational features into the available allotted area and to achieve that by the use of tight radii curves, both simple and reverse, and complex switch arrangements. I was just as guilty as anybody else in this respect when I started out.

The problem when beginning ones empire building, rolling stock wise, is you never know where you may end up. Nice R1 compliant LGB type product may be attractive at the start but your interests may change as your ambitions and eye for detail develop. That in turn may lead you to more "prototypical" type stock that will not function within such confines.

You should try to ease the curves from the outset, a generally accepted rule is 4 ft min', which will give you the greatest scope so you do not hamstring yourself with regards to any future developments and desires. That should also be applied to your switches and also taking care in their arrangement. And watch out also for reverse curves that, like poor switch geometries, will test all but the most flexible of truck mounted couplings. The more scale accurate product out there rely typically on body mounted couplers and anything below a certain radius will result in stock being dragged off the tracks as their ends swing outside the boundaries of the track. Max

 

[Gavin Sowry]

...... and not even my 'bendy' Shay would go around their teeny R1-style curves.

....allow me to respectfully offer a contrary opinion. Some Shays can run around R1 curves, this is one of them.
By all means, accept the advice offered, but in some ways, the limitations of R1 curves are not as dire as some would have you believe. It basically restricts you to 'smaller' rolling stock. It's horses for courses, if you ain't got the space, then you can go 'compact'. LGB Felbahn stock, for example, looks perfectly fine on R1, in fact, anything larger just don't look right (it doesn't look left, either).

 

[dunnyrail]

As ever with these things John it is horses for courses and the Curve discussion could rage on forever. But and here is the thing, for a starter less can be more till you get that experience and knowledge under your belt. As Tac says 4ft rad is good that means LGB R3 or more. But here is the but, play around with a temporary line for a while. LGB Track is very forgiving and will take being laid out on a temporary basis on a fairly flat lawn. Or even just a line of Bricks laid roughly in a plant border in some of the area's of your Track Plan. Get the feel for what you would like then make those expensive decisions.

Your R1's will not be wasted, they can be turned into straights for Sidings a bit of a faf but can be done and you will have had some fun with them to start with. All LGB Stock and Roundhouse 0-4-0 Live Steam will run on them despite the worries, yes some things look daft but so what at the start. If you aspire to a larger Live Steamer then the R3's or larger will most definately be the way to go. Depends on what you want though I somehow suspect at the moment you do not aspire to a Big Boy and Gauge 1 Standard Gauge is a much different beast to Narrow Gauge on Gauge 1 track.

As I said earlier Horses for Courses.