SPROG / Massoth Decoders

[craigwrdouglas]

Hi I bought a SPROG 3 unit on recommendations for the group - thanks again for the advice on this, and have begun setting up the Locomotive roster with the JMRI and Decoder Pro 3.

I am working with 3 locomotives at the moment.:
4/4 II Zuoz with Massoth XL v 1.2
4/4 III Capito with Massoth Decoder (version unknown, but definitely isn't newer than 1.2)
6/6 with LGB MTS 3 (Version 12)

With Zuoz, the values read weren't right (way out in places) initially, some readings gave different values a few seconds later, but settled down after a period to reading the right values. Decoder detection suggested that this was an atlas chip.

With Capito, the values read immediately rather than the second or 2 and loco nudge, the loco stays completely still and the value read comes back as -1.

I tried reading back values with a Hornby elite and everything comes back as 255, even the 8 & 7. detection gave an error - no such manufacturer as -1, (or something along those lines)

The Crocodile values Read in first time and they all looked right. decoder detection suggested a number of chips that this could be, one of those was the LGB MTS 3.

It's been a little bit hit and miss - can anyone share any experiences with similar or offer any advice on dealing with older decoders?

Thanks.

Craig

 

[PaulRhB]

Craig, have a look on the decoder selection pane and choose Massoth electronic for all 3, I've found the decoder detection can be hit and miss too. Even the LGB decoder is really a Massoth one and you'll see them under the Massoth heading.
If the problem persists then check the wheels and track are clean as SPROG is low current it may struggle with large decoders.
I've just been programming a Massoth 1.2 I had upgraded, (for a sound update), and I had a problem changing volume but found there are two different panes for showing the full cv list, on the tabs at the top of the page, one worked and one didn't! As JMRI is created by a myriad of people there are bound to be bugs that get through the tests.

 

[craigwrdouglas]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, the SPROG unit developed a fault and I am waiting for a replacement one at the moment.

I see what you mean about the tab duplication in JMRI - there seems to be 4 or 5 tabs that are duplicated on my version. I'll give it another go with that in mind when I get the unit back.

I'm interested w.r.t. decoder upgrades - is it practical to update the software version on decoders that are not sound chips? - I presume this is a back-to-Massoth proposition?

Thanks.

 

[PaulRhB]

It has to be an earlier version sound chip 1.1 or 1.2 to upgrade the software, the hardware isn't changed. All it does is unlock the decoder so you can change the soundfiles on it, originally it would have to be the original file for life. I took mine out of an electric loco and wanted to change it to diesel so I sent it back for the main software upgrade thinking I'd change the sound on a friends Massoth programmer but Massoth did that for me too if you want to add sound to a non sound decoder ( which doesn't have the flash memory chip for sound on the board), then you need the elusive Massoth S decoder that everyone is waiting for the new batch to arrive.

 

[beavercreek]

I ditto the remark about the low amp handling of the Sprog unit. I have used the Sprog and JMRI system and found that it is a great way to programme but the 'central station' function is really only good for testing the running basics (start voltage, lights, sound etc) on big locos with large decoders such as QSI magnums, Massoth XLS, ESU XL etc.

When I used it in 'Operation mode' to try to match speed steps with the running characteristics of the loco (back emf, chuff sync etc) I found the Sprog a little wanting and giving strange slow to mid speed results, as well as totally conking out when the wick was turned up. It was only down to the fact that it really struggles to give 0.75 -1.0amp.This can easily be seen as its own power supply is only rated at this amperage.
So it is best to only use it for programming and then to test results with your usual power supply.

 

[muns]

Or use it with a suitable booster - to drive trains that is not program decoders!

 

[beavercreek]

Or use it with a suitable booster - to drive trains that is not program decoders!

Mmmmmmm....magic smoke........

 

[mike]

sometimes, you just have to use the tool, as it was intended to be used for..

 

[craigwrdouglas]

Does anyone know when some of the Massoth bits will be available again - the S decoder and the uncoupler?

 

[PaulRhB]

Couplings are around I just got some from Garden Rail Outlet that were on back order. The S decoder? No one knows . . . Yet

 

[craigwrdouglas]

I've run into a bit of a problem with some of the Massoth Chipped locos when changing settings with SPROG.

In a 4/4 III with a Massoth XL Decoder, I couldn't get a clean read of the settings from the loco(the chip was in the loco when I got it), so I did the various resets to get a baseline.

The problem is that now I can't get the lights and pantographs to operate.

AS far as I can See the settings seem right (see below). I've pulled out a bulb and checked it with an analogue voltage.

Any ideas?

CV1 = 7
CV2 = 2
CV3 = 3
CV4 = 3
CV5 = 255
CV6 = 64
CV7 = 13
CV8 = 123
CV9 = 0
CV13 = 0
CV17 = 192
CV18 = 128
CV19 = 0
CV29 = 4
CV49 = 2
CV50 = 5
CV51 = 128
CV52 = 64
CV53 = 5
CV54 = 1
CV55 = 0
CV56 = 2
CV57 = 0
CV58 = 0
CV59 = 8
CV60 = 4
CV61 = 60
CV62 = 255
CV63 = 0
CV64 = 9
CV67 = 6
CV68 = 8
CV69 = 10
CV70 = 13
CV71 = 16
CV72 = 19
CV73 = 22
CV74 = 26
CV75 = 31
CV76 = 36
CV77 = 43
CV78 = 48
CV79 = 54
CV80 = 60
CV81 = 69
CV82 = 76
CV83 = 84
CV84 = 92
CV85 = 102
CV86 = 112
CV87 = 124
CV88 = 136
CV89 = 152
CV90 = 168
CV91 = 188
CV92 = 211
CV93 = 231
CV94 = 254
CV106 = 250
CV112 = 5
CV113 = 127
CV114 = 0
CV115 = 4
CV116 = 0
CV117 = 125
CV118 = 30
CV119 = 6
CV120 = 0
CV121 = 0
CV122 = 0
CV123 = 0
CV127 = 0
CV128 = 0
CV255 = 1

 

[Philbahn]

Hi Craig just checked My Capito against your list. Found some alterations

CV 17-192 49-2 50-32 53-5 77-43 81-69 90-168 92-211 93--231

Hope it helps

 

[craigwrdouglas]

Hi Phil - thanks for checking this. It would be good to know what values your loco has for 49 & 50.

(From the manual)
CV 17 is long Address High Byte
CV 49 Massoth Configuration Table - My setting of 2 should give:
Parallel Data Processing only (rather than Serial + Parallel)
Digital Load Processing On
Analog Load Control Off
F1-Output Standard
CV 50 is light Dimming value - Originally I had this at 32 - I changed this to 5 after reading the manual I understand there is a voltage regulation circuit to protect the supplied 5v bulbs in the 4/4 III
CV 67-94 are driving curve - I wouldn't expect these to contribute to light problems though.

Thanks,

Craig