Signalling Question

GAP

GAP

G Scale Model Trains, 1:1 Sugar Cane Trains
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crossover.png
I have this rail line configuration on my layout and want to add semaphore signalling for when the points are changed and the crossover is active.
Do I use one arm with it parallel with the ground for straight through and at 45 degrees when crossover is active or do I need another position of the arm for straight through maybe up 45 degrees with parallel as stop.
Apologies for lack of terminology knowledge.
 
GAP said:
View attachment 337810
I have this rail line configuration on my layout and want to add semaphore signalling for when the points are changed and the crossover is active.
Do I use one arm with it parallel with the ground for straight through and at 45 degrees when crossover is active or do I need another position of the arm for straight through maybe up 45 degrees with parallel as stop.
Apologies for lack of terminology knowledge.
Click to expand...
If your intention is point indication then really, you can do whatever works for you.

If you wanted prototypical indication then we would need a bit more info to be able to assist on signal placement.

Typically a single semaphore signal (in the UK) is used to protect a 'block' and not to indicate point direction.
There are junction semaphores, know as 'splitting signals', would consist of one arm per route. Other examples of route indication would be a 'route indicator sign' which would be a mechanical sign with either letters or numbers shown to indicate the route, e.g. '2' for a home signal into platform 2.

Newer colour light signals are either fitted with 'feathers' or electronic 'route indicator signs' to show point setting.
 
GAP said:
View attachment 337810
I have this rail line configuration on my layout and want to add semaphore signalling for when the points are changed and the crossover is active.
Do I use one arm with it parallel with the ground for straight through and at 45 degrees when crossover is active or do I need another position of the arm for straight through maybe up 45 degrees with parallel as stop.
Apologies for lack of terminology knowledge.
Click to expand...
Are you running trains to a terminus?

Are you running bi-directionally, or LHS or RHS running?

Depends on quite a few factors....
 
GAP said:
View attachment 337810
I have this rail line configuration on my layout and want to add semaphore signalling for when the points are changed and the crossover is active.
Do I use one arm with it parallel with the ground for straight through and at 45 degrees when crossover is active or do I need another position of the arm for straight through maybe up 45 degrees with parallel as stop.
Apologies for lack of terminology knowledge.
Click to expand...
Another issue, is the track a double main line or just a loop with a siding each end. Indicating which way trains run if double with arrows would help or if single track which is the main line. I think Auz practice is pretty similar to U.K. so no problems there.
 
The track config is;
one line from a yard down to another yard locos are reversed to run in the opposite direction in the yards.
another line which is a loop that trains can be switched onto increasing the length of the run from upper to lower yard or just go round and round.
The loop can also allow trains to pass in opposite directions ie down train switched onto loop while up train allowed to run to upper yard line.
Hope that clears things up a bit

Crossover.jpeg
 
Ok here is the scheme, the higher signal is for the main route, the lower one for the subsidiary (lesser) route I.e. through the crossover. By your description though double track at this location you in effect have 2 single lines here.IMG_1581.jpeg
 
GAP said:
Do I use one arm with it parallel with the ground for straight through and at 45 degrees when crossover is active or do I need another position of the arm for straight through maybe up 45 degrees with parallel as stop.
Click to expand...

if you were implementing a speed signalling approach that might work. Do you have a particular prototype in mind as that will have a bearing on how it should be signalled?
 
dunnyrail said:
I think Auz practice is pretty similar to U.K.
Click to expand...

Back in early block-and-lock times they were similar but over time they changed towards more North American practice, with both NSW and VIC moving to more speed signalling like approaches.

The link below goes to the current NSW signalling... while it shows colour light signals, the same indications were achievable with three position upper-quadrant semaphore signals.

Signalling in NSW

www.nswrail.net www.nswrail.net
 
Software Tools said:
if you were implementing a speed signalling approach that might work. Do you have a particular prototype in mind as that will have a bearing on how it should be signalled?
Click to expand...
No prototype.
My railway is a prototype in itself my rules my way so anything that looks a bit realistic will do.
This will eventually be controlled by a raspberry pi using wifi to relay modules to do the switching, if I can ever get it to work.
dunnyrail said:
Ok here is the scheme, the higher signal is for the main route, the lower one for the subsidiary (lesser) route I.e. through the crossover. By your description though double track at this location you in effect have 2 single lines here.View attachment 337833
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct 1 train running on the point to point and 1 on the loop and in opposing directions as well as the same way.
 
This is how you could do it on a simple speed signalling approach with either upper-quarant semaphore signals or with colour light signals.

Green = proceed at normal line speed for the section, observing the track ahead to the next facing signal

Yellow = proceed at slow speed, carefully observing the track ahead to the next facing signal

Red = STOP, do not proceed

IMG_2134.jpeg
 
Software Tools said:
This is how you could do it on a simple speed signalling approach with either upper-quarant semaphore signals or with colour light signals.

Green = proceed at normal line speed for the section, observing the track ahead to the next facing signal

Yellow = proceed at slow speed, carefully observing the track ahead to the next facing signal

Red = STOP, do not proceed

View attachment 337837
Click to expand...
So I need a semaphore whose arm has 3 positions Up, or vertical being green, middle or at about 45 degrees being yellow, and down or straight across being red?
 
I have have had a re think about that type of signal I will use.
I am going to change my points using WiFi controlled relay modules that only have 2 states.
As I am going to run the signals off the relay controlled servo control boards I will only have open or closed so I will most likely go with down (through the crossover) and level (go straight ahead).
With a bit more wiring I guess I could have another signal that says stop above that so level says stop and down says see other signal for direction.
Would that be a bit like a real railway or do I just make it so with local instructions for drivers.

Bit like this

1737704329794.jpeg
 
GAP said:
I have have had a re think about that type of signal I will use.
I am going to change my points using WiFi controlled relay modules that only have 2 states.
As I am going to run the signals off the relay controlled servo control boards I will only have open or closed so I will most likely go with down (through the crossover) and level (go straight ahead).
With a bit more wiring I guess I could have another signal that says stop above that so level says stop and down says see other signal for direction.
Would that be a bit like a real railway or do I just make it so with local instructions for drivers.

Bit like this

View attachment 337906
Click to expand...
The signal shown here is a home signal which is set to clear, with the lower yellow distant signal advising that the next signal down the line is at stop....
 
GAP said:
I have have had a re think about that type of signal I will use.
I am going to change my points using WiFi controlled relay modules that only have 2 states.
As I am going to run the signals off the relay controlled servo control boards I will only have open or closed so I will most likely go with down (through the crossover) and level (go straight ahead).
With a bit more wiring I guess I could have another signal that says stop above that so level says stop and down says see other signal for direction.
Would that be a bit like a real railway or do I just make it so with local instructions for drivers.

Bit like this

View attachment 337906
Click to expand...
I've been following this thread after a fashion but as I'm not good at combining written descriptions and diagrams I wasn't sure I'd understood things. However, a few days ago it struck me that the difficulty arose not from what you were wanting to do as from what you had to do it with, an LGB single arm semaphore signal, and the idea came to me of using that signal to control access to the crossing - arm straight, train going straight on, arm down, train through the crossing - and the signal post having a sign on it to show this, e.g. a white board with a large black J for junction on or the word Junction.
 
playmofire said:
I've been following this thread after a fashion but as I'm not good at combining written descriptions and diagrams I wasn't sure I'd understood things. However, a few days ago it struck me that the difficulty arose not from what you were wanting to do as from what you had to do it with, an LGB single arm semaphore signal, and the idea came to me of using that signal to control access to the crossing - arm straight, train going straight on, arm down, train through the crossing - and the signal post having a sign on it to show this, e.g. a white board with a large black J for junction on or the word Junction.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea, but sadly that is not signaling practice Arm straight means danger do not proceed. Of course if Rule 1 were to be invoked……
 
Looks like I am going to have to invoke Rule 1.
The scenario will be that the railway exists in a secluded valley and long ago the owners did a deal with the rail regulator that as their railway was unique they would write their own signalling rules and have them approved by the regulator. Local regulations so to speak.
That works for me.
As the signals are really a visual of the point setting I may be able to get away with just the single arm with green as horizontal and yellow and crossover. On a mimic board the colours for the points are blue=main line and orange=crossover.
Thanks for all the suggestions I may have a change yet and put 2 signals one after the other to get it right who knows. Never say never.
 
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