Self reversing Loco

LGB-Sid said:
Thanks for all the reply's it's defiantly a power supply problem the voltage picked up is very hap hazard, cleaned all the wheel backs and tread area, also the inner metal power pick up strips and the carbon bush tubes it connects to , mounted the skates correctly noticed the retainers were not in correct so now the skates have the full travel they should do , I copied how they was is installed didn't realize they had been put together wrong by others.

Power pickup better but still inconsistent. will have to sit and think, I can see this is never going to be a smooth running engine at this rate.:wondering:
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Sometimes the connection from the carbon brush to its shell can be dicky - a smidgen of conductive lube oil can do the trick :nod::nod:
 
PhilP said:
If it is a pickup problem...
Can you solder a wire to the busbar on that side of the block? Then bring the wire out of the hole the pin would come out of??
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Had one last go at the strip ./ pin that picks up power on that side and at the moment it runs or has done backwards and forwards for 20 mins OK....except now and then it will reverse itself, and the track position varies so I assume I can rule the track out, probably 8 times out of 10 it will run through the reversing loop correct the other two it reverses it's self till it gets to the other end of the loop and it will reverse again..

I think it will get something soldered onto the pickup strip in the end as it seems rather crude and I was hoping 6 wheels and skates would be reliable for power pick up.

I could try and wire my Multi meter to it and strap it onto the loco and try and see if it bleeps for lack of power when it reverses, but it's doing it so quick not see I would see it do it.

The reversing loop functions as it should as I can run others Locos through it with out them reversing so I can rule that out , I assume it's a decoder reset next just to make sure that it's back to Factory in case theirs a CV set wrong.
 
John S said:
Borrowed your picture from here, https://www.gscalecentral.net/threa...-part-of-your-g-scale-interest.310793/page-17, PhilP's suggestion highlighted in red, may well solve the errant pickup problem.

View attachment 238169
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One of those strips was not in the correct position when I took that pick LOL one sits on the outside of the block and the other nearer the center as there are small pins in the gearbox cover that hold the strip against the pickup points so I put the strip I moved back to the original position and have been playing with the pin shape till I got some sort of readability only taken two days so far :) but it will get modified in the end I think
 
In a 4pin G/B those strips will be towards the centre in order to connect to the 2 centre pins (the track pickup pins).

On a 3 pin G/B one side will be on the outside to connect to the common pickup/motor pins.
 
muns said:
In a 4pin G/B those strips will be towards the centre in order to connect to the 2 centre pins (the track pickup pins).

On a 3 pin G/B one side will be on the outside to connect to the common pickup/motor pins.
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It's a 3 pin gearbox that is being converted so, one strip is on the outside and one on the inside, so they align with the little pins on the gearbox lid that pushes them down, the strip that was the common W/S was/is the one being the pain. I was going to put them both on the inside like a 4 pin gearbox but then the plastic pins on the gearbox lid are in the wrong place to hold the strips.
 
LGB-Sid said:
. I have made a different pin and tried it, reshaped the original pin , reshaped the strip that fits over all the pickups on that side but at times it still loses power pickup on that side of the Loco if you go too fast :mad:
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Presumably the wheel treads and flanges are clean that only leaves the pickups. Sometimes the internal springs deteriorate. Also there are two lengths of pickup, yours may be incorrect for that model, Try swapping side to side and see if the problem remains on the same side.
 
Neil Robinson said:
Presumably the wheel treads and flanges are clean that only leaves the pickups. Sometimes the internal springs deteriorate. Also there are two lengths of pickup, yours may be incorrect for that model, Try swapping side to side and see if the problem remains on the same side.
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Cleaned , polished and cleaned again :) the pickup springs are a bit week but it has 6 wheels with good carbon brushes behind them to pick up power from as well, although it could do with new springs don't think it will cure it, spent the evening running trains just to make sure my reversing loop it all OK and no problems at all.

If I ran wires from the pickup strips inside the gearbox base instead of the brass pins it has , I would probably have to do away with the skates as without the pins, there is nothing to hold the skate retaining clip / bars in place inside the gearbox..
 
Teaching to suck eggs time..
You say you converted from three to four pin??
Are you *sure* motor and track are isolated from each other?
do not see how this can be happening........... I am a little concerned about you saying it happens with your reverse loop system.. - I know everything else works with it, but I wonder if the loop sensing is causing a problem with the decoder somehow???????? :confused::confused:
 
Continuing from above, and having re-read some of the thread..........
How are you connecting to the four pins in the block? - Normal practice is to bring a second motor connection out with a piece of wire.. I am beginning to think you have motor and track connected on one side??
 
PhilP said:
Teaching to suck eggs time..
You say you converted from three to four pin??
Are you *sure* motor and track are isolated from each other?
do not see how this can be happening........... I am a little concerned about you saying it happens with your reverse loop system.. - I know everything else works with it, but I wonder if the loop sensing is causing a problem with the decoder somehow???????? :confused::confused:
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Motor and track are 100% separate :) it worried me that it reversed when it went into my reversing loop which is why I spent two hours tonight just running other Locos and they behaved fine.

It does sometimes reverse on a long straight outside of the loop area as well , so not confined to passing through the loop.

Can power spikes i.e. lost of power and it then return reverse a Loco ? it has to be the decoder that is reversing the Loco as the Motor is only getting power from the decoder. The decoder ran fine in a stainz and also ran fine when I put it back in the stainz to test it again.

Loco is only responding to it's DDC address of 7, there is no analogue control on 0 so it is under DCC control when it goes into the reversing loop, as I know an analogue Loco would reverse itself in a loop.
 
It has to be the decoder..
It must be set in some way to respond to a break in power. - Or IS actually faulty..

I think the only way to be sure is to try this block with a different decoder??
 
PhilP said:
Continuing from above, and having re-read some of the thread..........
How are you connecting to the four pins in the block? - Normal practice is to bring a second motor connection out with a piece of wire.. I am beginning to think you have motor and track connected on one side??
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The latest setup is the block has its three pins two for rail power one for Motor the second motor is now a wire soldered direct to the motor terminal and feed out the top of the block

Yellow soldered direct to Motor + side
Green original setup on a pin that contacts the motor - side but is not long enough to touch the lower parts of the gearbox and pick up any power checked and double checked.
Brown original pin setup in the original position seems to work 100% I can always get full track voltage on this pin
White, was the original shared pin that picked up from the track and feed the motor on one side , pin now only picks up track voltage motor tap with the soldered wire does not touch it and can not touch it as the tab is bent away so it can not contact the pin. this is the pin that has played up in that I wasn't always getting the full track voltage on the pin .

If I remove all the silly pins and replace them with wires I would probably have to lose the skates as two of the pins are what seem to hold the skate locking tabs into position inside the gearbox.



decoder.jpg
 
Just for me...

Can you put a bit of insulting tape between that screw-head and the board please? - There is probably an enormous gap, but..

Also, not sure about that bottom-right component? - Finger-mark, or has it got hot?
 
Hm I am not sure about that way you converted this chassis to a DCC Compliant one from a 3 pinner. I always solder wires to the Motor so that I have a direct route to the decoder then separate the pickups to make things as much like a 4 pinner as is possible. I wonder if this is your issue?

Also as Phil says that component looks a little fried but if it keeps on working OK in your Stainz then one would have thought that cannot be the issue.
 
The component is OK it was just a bit of glue from insulation tape that had been around the wires, it just rubbed off.

The way it is now converted is the way that Massoth published it on the web, as I mentioned if I remove the pins all together then the skates will not have anything to hold the retaining plates in place which will mean it's then a 6 point power pick up block without skates instead of 8, I was hoping for the 8 to get over R1 points better as it is easy to stall on R1 points at realistic speeds.

I will add a bit of tape :) by the way the rubber band and the bit of foam board is not its final mounting it'd just temp before someone says you should not use a rubber band to hold a decoder in place :)

Will probably see if it's possible to get a wire down the pin holes without drilling the pin holes bigger to see if soldered wires makes any difference next.
 
Maybe I missed something from previous postings but are you sure the 4 wires from the decoder to the motor block are on the correct pins? The yellow and green go the the motor and the white and brown to the track. Normally they are not alternate like that, you have green and yellow on the outside pair and white and brown on the inside pair.
 
idlemarvel said:
Maybe I missed something from previous postings but are you sure the 4 wires from the decoder to the motor block are on the correct pins? The yellow and green go the the motor and the white and brown to the track. Normally they are not alternate like that, you have green and yellow on the outside pair and white and brown on the inside pair.
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It's a 3 pin block converted to a 4 pin block the motor wires are on the outside of the block and the track wires are on the inside as shown in the pic on 33
 
You're quite right in theory, Dave, and on a 4-pin box you would be correct - but the "white" pin on the 3-pin box is in the outside position because (as built) it contacts the motor terminal as well as the track power bus strip for that side - what Sid has done is to bring the yellow wire through the top plate inside of the white connector, because it is soldered directly on to the motor terminal which is bent inwards to clear the white pin, there isn't room to run it to the outside of the white pin - hence the non-standard wire order!
At least, that's what I assume is the case.....

Jon.
 
Thanks Jon and Sid, I should have read the other posts first. :-(
 
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