Roundhouse Darjeeling - looking for advice

[Ralphmp]

A few years ago, I was at the Peterborough Show and was captivated by one of the live steam exhibits. The think that got me was the fact it was moving slowly, not racing round at maximum speed like so many model steam engines I’ve seen. My wonderful lady was with me and asked why I didn’t get a live steam locomotive myself – big mistake as there was a retailer doing a great deal on a Roundhouse Darjeeling plus water bottle, fuel can & nozzle, etc! So I took the plunge and purchased the loco plus bits and bobs.



Regrettably, I consider it the biggest waste of money I’ve spent on this hobby. The loco is great to look at but for me virtually impossible to control with the supplied radio controller – it either lurches about when trying to go slowly or sets off like a scalded cat with the slightest increase in throttle, and there’s no way I can see of just letting it run without having to constantly have a thumb on the controller.



The biggest issue though was that the water tended to run low before the fuel ran out – not ideal. Having spoken with Roundhouse, the retailer and some friends who run live steam it appears that my expectations of the loco were way off and that it was mostly doing what they’d expect from a cack-handed steam newbie. So having established I’m unlikely to ever get the fine degree of control over the loco I’m used to with my Massoth DCC system, and not wanting to throw more money at this expensive item for a better radio controller or some upgrades (a Slo Mo I think was mentioned?), I kind of gave up on the loco and it has been gathering dust ever since.



Whilst the loco still remains great to look at it is an expensive ornament and I’ve been wondering whether it would be possible to bring it back into service, either for me to have one more go at trying to get to grips with it, or to maybe sell on to someone who would get sme real use from the loco. I’m therefore looking for suggestions on possible courses of action.



Thanks in advance for any feedback (and for your patience reading this rather lengthy post).

 

[Tanker man]

I have a Darj B , I do remember taking it to an open day and someone else making the same comments about their loco, mine will run slowly, part of the fun, for me, is the fact that you have to 'drive' a steam radio model. My layout has inclines and that the best bit, open the regulator to climb the slope then back it off on the downhill . The chap referred to earlier, said that after watching me drive the loco, he felt that he had not been gentle enough on the regulator stick. I do think driving with radio is something of an 'art' and does take practice to perfect.
On the subject of running out of water before gas, I can only assume you may have the gas turned up too high and boiling the water away too quiclkly? I know that sounds back to front, but it is possible, does the safety valve 'blow off' continually? It is amazing how low you can turn the gas down and still keep the steam up..
I love my engine and really enjoy every run with it.
Hope this helps
Dave

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks, Dave, it does. I realise that I was expecting the loco to behave like my LGB DCC models but powered with steam - pretty stupid I know - and maybe I should have had a go on someone else's loco before making my purchase. However, now i have more time one my hands it would be nice to try again. My big concern is whether the loco needs any attention before attempting to steam up again - I'd rather not have a major incident if at all possible!

Thanks again.

 

[casey jones snr]

Phil, how old is the locomotive? If you stored it away correctly ie emptied the boiler and lubricator of water and oil, vented the gas and lightly oiled around the motions then it should be alright.
I would suggest giving it another light oiling of the motions and other moving parts, fill the boiler to the recommended amount of water, fill with fresh butane, renew all the batteries.
Once all that is done place it on a rolling road or failing that place it on blocks. Light up and once steam begins to build up check for steam or water leaks. If there are no leaks run it on the rolling road / blocks at various throttle settings in both directions until the gas / water runs out. I would do this a couple of times, you will soon get the feeling of the throttle.

 

[jimmytrains_0]

How about some practise on two bricks lifting the loco clear of obstructings and re learning your intitial steps, its not going to whizz off, derail or give you a feeling of being watched. All of these things worry us from the start.

 

[Tanker man]

Hi, I think you would be very unlucky to have a 'major incedent' with a Roundhouse loco, a couple of years ago at our open day, my Grandson, who loves the Darj, ( he is only 11 now) was running the loco and I suddenly realised it had not come round, he had a desperate call of nature and ran indoors leaving the loco in the train shed ( which the line runs through) by the time I recovered the loco, there was no water in the boiler, just turned everything off and set it to one side to cool down, sometime later, when it was cold, refilled the boiler, gas and oil , lit the burner and away it went as if nothing had happened!
It's a shame about this 'lockdown' otherwise, I would have invited you over, with the loco, for the day and you could have tried the inclines on my track.
Oh , on the subject of Roundhouse locos , on another occasion, a friend of mine was having problems with the radio on his Lady Ann, all of a sudden, the loco shot backwards , straight out of the steaming bay and into a bucket of water! Again, let it cool and away it went, the problem was with duff batteries in the transmitter.
Have another go, you may be surprised and pleased that it will run so well!........hopefully!
Dave

 

[dunnyrail]

If you are unsure of how it will be the best thing to do is give it a good clean, check that all the bolts are present and nit loose (do not try to over tighten anything) then Steam it Up Not forgetting a gentle oil round the moving parts. Now let it get to the working pressure 40psi, did it blow off at 40psi. If it did turn up the gas, does the pressure rise above say 45psi if it does turn off. The pressure gauge should stop the boiler going much above the working pressure, if this is the case then you will be ok to run the beast. If not you may need to seek professional advice or take a long to a 16mm live steam group where you will get good help and guidance. Assuming all ok.......

Now to running, have you ever watched a real steam engine being driven? The driver opens the regulator a lot then pulls back pretty quickly. He/She is charging the engine to heat things up, our dragons require the same technique but of course with much less delay. So perhaps 2/3 open regulator then pull back to say 25% of the regulator. If nothing happens open a little bit more at a time, it takes a while to learn your charge. They are all different!

However remember that the first time you open the regulator after steaming up you will be clearing water and oil in the system, a reverse or two should resolve that. As you are driving the loco, now hopefully with much more control you will find that constant SMALL adjustments are required to keep it moving at a steady pace. Curves, unoticed gradients will all come into play here. Then of course you can try with a train, each consist will cause the engine to react differently, heavier load, rolling resistance if the vehicles etc.

Enjoy your Darje, I have long lusted after one but managed to resist ever since they first were announced, not my line you see.

 

[maxi-model]

Which transmitter (TX) was your Darj' supplied with ? Was it a regular 2 stick type or one of those damnable R/C car tumb wheel and trigger types. Mine came with the latter, which I believe was a type RH dallied with for a while. I could not get on with it in that set up so I contacted RH and they replaced the TX FOC (well, just the postage cost) with the more common 2 stick type. Very decent of them I thought. Transformed my opinion of the loco. Now it is one of my favourites. It's 0-4-0 configuration lends it some prodigious adhesion and uphill lugging capability - Just like the prototype. Getting a nice slow pace take a little practice but is a very satisfying skill once mastered.

It's a pity that the current Covid-19 situation makes the next suggestion nigh on impossible - Join the the 16 mm NGM, if you haven't already, and get along to a local meet where I'm sure you would get a lot of friendly help and advise. A I did some 15 years ago when befuddle and mystified by the operation of my own first live steamer. Max

 

[PhilP]

Find a Group, Model Engineers, what-have-you..
Get in touch, and they will (once we can) welcome you with open arms.

Like all skills, it takes a little practice, and it helps to have someone knowledgeable 'hold your hand' the first couple of runs.

If you still don't feel you will be satisfied. - Do give it a few tries, first. Then you can offer it on, in the knowledge it is in good condition.

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

I think most of the points have been addressed, but I'd like to add the following:
- If you have a 2-stick transmitter then a quick modification will avoid the need to keep any fingers or thumbs on the levers.
- A blowing safety valve uses more steam and water than the loco does at full chat. This could well be the cause of the empty boiler you are seeing. It must not vent anything until 40psi is reached, and if it does at lower pressures it needs attention. If it does vent at 40psi turn the gas down to stop it.
- Leaving a loco lit with no water in the boiler causes it to get hot, and then very hot, but it will not explode. It will start to smoke, then the paint will start burning off and the radio gear will melt. Leave it long enough and the bodywork will fall apart. However, even in this state it would be repairable. Gas lit and nothing on the pressure gauge means no water, so kill the gas and leave to cool. DO NOT put water in the boiler until cool as flash steam is extremely dangerous if you get in its way.
- The performance you desire can be achieved without any slow motion device.
- Personally I'd avoid a Model Engineers group, but attending a 16mm members meet would be very helpful.

The Darj is a nice loco that can be made to run well. Good luck!

 

[David1226]

Just to add a picture to illustrate all the posted text, here is a pic of Dave Lawrence's (Tanker man) Darjeeling B Class passing through the main station on his garden layout, 13.8.2017.



David

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks for all the helpful replies and constructive suggestions. I will give the loco a close inspection and carry out the maintenance suggested and then try again on my rolling road. Hopefully all we go well - I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Paul M]

Get in touch with the West Herts, East Herts or even Bedford Area Groups of the 16mm Association, I know it's lock down at present, but you'll be more than welcome at one of their meetings, and you'll get all the help you need. What part of Hertfordshire are you from?

 

[Ralphmp]

Hemel Hempstead area.

 

[dunnyrail]

U

Hemel Hempstead area.

Hm pity I moved from Hemel in 2012 could have given you a hand when that is allowed. But the good news is that when things get back to normal the Beds Group of the 16mm meet at Eaton Bray once a month. Good bunch of guys that will be very helpful to you and even have test tracks to demonstrate to you, though one or two of them can be speed merchants! Keep an aye on their Webb site:-

16mm Bedfordshire Area Group

The Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers Bedfordshire Area Group

www.bag16mm.org.uk

 

[AndrewK]

All the above comments from the experts make total sense. Just a year ago I got my first and so far only Roundhouse loco - Lady Anne. The loco clearly worked as it should, but I did begin to find the standard twin stick controls difficult to master and lacked the degree of control I was hoping for. About the same time I managed to build an HGLW battery powered diesel kit following ge-rik’s superb Peckforton Railway guides. This introduced me to the Deltang TX22 r/c system which I have now applied to my Lady Anne. What a massive difference! My post was here - Binding Roundhouse Lady Anne with Deltang Transmitter? - G Scale Central.
I am still very much a newbie and I don’t often post on here, but I hope this helps.

 

[Paul M]

West Herts Area Group are at Rickmansworth and Harpenden, Home but either will be a great source of advice

 

[David1226]

Just a bit more colour, this time running on 32mm gauge track, taken at the Stafford Showground, 20.3.2016.



David

 

[dunnyrail]

Just a bit more colour, this time running on 32mm gauge track, taken at the Stafford Showground, 20.3.2016.

View attachment 265122

David

They really are a superb little loco, Roundhouse must be given a big thumbs up for choosing them as one of their production models.

 

[Ralphmp]

West Herts Area Group are at Rickmansworth and Harpenden, Home but either will be a great source of advice

Many thanks.