QSI Quantum DCC 'plug and play' Bachmann troubles

[beavercreek]

I have had 3 used QSI quantum boards kept by for bringing some Bachmann locos over to the dark side. Now is the time to get them ready for use on the mainline as it is now DC/DCC.
BUT....
I have been testing the locos on a rolling road using a LGB 1 amp DC power supply.
I have tried all three cards in the plug and play sockets on the new C19 and a new Climax (which also has its own factory fitted Soundtraxx Tsunami DCC with sound).
The C19 works fine with DC without the QSI board, the Climax works fine with the DCC Tsunami but when the QSI boards are put in place (the Tsunami is removed from the Climax to do this)....nothing happens when the power is applied.

Now, I am wondering if all three boards might have the CV governing analogue operation 'turned off'...would this completely blank the DC operation? or perhaps all three boards are dud (this is probably not the case as two came from Jeremy at Dragon).
The locos are fine, the DC supply is fine, the Tsunami DCC 'plug and play' board works fine with the DC powerpack but the QSI boards do not work......... Perhaps 1 amp is just not enough for the QSI boards
Has anyone got any ideas?

 

[muns]

I would check bit 2 of CV29 to see if analogue operation has been disabled (it will be set if digital & analog operation is allowed).

 

[KeithT]

I am not the one to advise as I gave up on QSI boards with my Bachmann loco. However, I strongly suspect that 1A will not be sufficient.
Perhaps if Neil Robinson sees this post he could advise.

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Mark and Keith

If the the CV29 bit 2 is set to not allow analogue , would that completely shut any activity off if DC was applied?

I am suspecting that 1 amp maybe not enough but it is strange that it is enough for the Tsunami 'plug and play' DCC board to operate.

 

[Keith RhB]

1 Amp should be plenty for what you are trying to do...I would also guess they are set for digital running only. What DCC equipment are you using--can you read out the CV value in 29?
Stupid question probably but what happens if you try it on your DCC track, or can you try it on a friend's track?

Keith

 

[Zerogee]

For what it's worth, Mike, Mark (Muns) has supplied me with a couple of Massoth decoders recently with the new Powercap Micro buffer units fitted - when he sent them to me, he mentioned that the analogue DC option on the decoders (CV29) was turned off, to avoid any problems with the decoder seeing the buffer as a DC power supply. Just to be on the safe side, I double-checked with him what would happen if the loco was put on an analogue track by mistake (I didn't want an escape of Magic Smoke!), and he confirmed me that no harm would occur, it would simply sit there and do absolutely nothing.
So, if yours HAVE got the DC function disabled, then I would say it's quite correct that they would do nothing at all if fed DC power.

Jon.

 

[beavercreek]

The DCC power feed goes outside and it is a bit stuffed up with snow and ice at the mo, so I was just running the locos on a quickly set up rolling road in the dining room (no brownie points for that) to test the QSI installs. I will get out the Sprog (not the child!) and inspect to see what each of the QSI boards has CV29 set to.
I hope it is the fact that they are either set to not allow analogue or that for some reason the QSI Quantums require more than 1 amp DC to 'wake up'...otherwise they are as the dodo.

 

[Keith RhB]

Nah it's probably something simple such as the CV, I am sure the 1A is plenty. I'm sure you'll get it figured out soon.

Keith

 

[beavercreek]

Will test later today

 

[beavercreek]

Keith, why did you give up on the QSI boards with the Bachamnn locos?

 

[ntpntpntp]

It helps to have a voltmeter and ammeter hooked up when you run a loco on a rolling road for testing and verifying DCC installs etc. That way you can gently turn up the DC volts and see any evidence of shorts etc. I use a Maplin bench power supply (2.5 amps adustable V and A) which has built in metering.

Normally with a DCC decoder you'll see a few milliamps of current draw once the decoder wakes up at around 5 - 7 volts (depends on the decoder design), before the loco starts moving or turns the lights on.

Another thought about the QSI decoders: it is possible to put them into various states of "shut down" so that they don't respond. You have to use certain DCC functions to change state. I'm not sure if a decoder that's been shut down also remains non-responsive on analogue DC (I'd need to read the manual).

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Nick
It is CV29 that allows DC to be switched on or off and, from the feedback already given, it looks as if it could be the case that the decoder will just not respond at all if analogue is not allowed. I have tried to find, in the manual, how the QSI reacts with CV29 being set to 'analogue off' but there is no reference to it.
As it is a 'plug and play' board going into the locos 'plug and play' sockets, the short circuits etc are probably not a problem here as the locos are fine with the jumper boards or another plug and play board in their sockets. I would think that it might be improbable to have three boards with on board shorts

 

[ntpntpntp]

It is CV29 that allows DC to be switched on or off and, from the feedback already given, it looks as if it could be the case that the decoder will just not respond at all if analogue is not allowed. I have tried to find, in the manual, how the QSI reacts with CV29 being set to 'analogue off' but there is no reference to it.

Yes I know about CV29. I was suggesting that the QSI also has other shutdown/disconnect states (function F9 I think) that might have been set, but unlikely that all 3 of your boards have been left in this state?

I checked the Q2 and the HO DCC manuals online from QSI's site (I never remember which applies to the Magnum, I think it's the Q2). Both mention CV29 bit 2 "power source conversion" and it can be enabled or disabled just like any other DCC decoder. I quote: "Note: This bit must be set to 1 in order for engine to work on Analog track"

As it is a 'plug and play' board going into the locos 'plug and play' sockets, the short circuits etc are probably not a problem here as the locos are fine with the jumper boards or another plug and play board in their sockets. I would think that it might be improbable to have three boards with on board shorts

I would hope not! Just that it is strongly recommended by most DCC experts that you should check a new decoder installation using variable DC and with metering in place. Just because the existing Tsunami and the QSI both have the same "plug-and-play" socket, that doesn't guarantee that both decoders have implemented the specification exactly the same. Let's not forget there have been compatability problems even with "plug and play" decoders, eg. Digitrax DGxxxAR decoders needed a pin removed when used with certain older Aristo locos. There have also been reports of slight differences between the implementations of the socket in some models of Bachmann and Aristo locos.

 

[beavercreek]

Thanks for the input Nick.
I will be setting up a testbed with a DCC power supply and also inspecting CVs with the Sprog. Hopefully the boards are fine.
The sockets on the new C19 have been checked by a magazine reviewer for their compatibility and they are fine with the QSI boards so I will use that as the test loco.
Here's hoping....

 

[Zerogee]

Mike - for using your 1200Z in a "test bed" situation, you can buy spares of the 6-way green plug that goes in the back of the unit - so you can have your test bed rig wired to a spare plug, with both running (on rollers) and programming tracks connected to it, then you can just move your 1200Z into the shed, study, workshop or whatever and plug it in. That way, you don't have to disturb your permanent layout wiring.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Massoth-Ansc...dellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item43aac3f691 < Link To http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ma...mp;hash=item43aac3f691

Jon.

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Jon
Yes, I know I could have implemented the Massoth but I was being a bit lazy and didn't want to extricate the 1200z from its little 'home' in the 'rack' in the conservatory!
But I will purchase one of those green plug banks for future use.
I am going to the gallery where it is warm and I have the sprog set up. I will use the MTS III set that I was going to sell as the power supply etc.

It was just so convenient in the dining room with the little 1 amp supply...just goes to show...cut corners and you end up short..........

 

[KeithT]

Keith, why did you give up on the QSI boards with the Bachamnn locos?

To say it didn't work is an understatement. The loco a Bachmann K27 worked, and still does, fine in analogue. I plugged-in the QSI Aristo card and everything went haywire. Sometimes it would start and sometimes it wouldn't. all the sounds were astray, the bell began to sound on the wrong key and would not stop. It went on and on. Switching off and retrying brought diferent errors. It went back, was reset but on return it was even worse.
Around 2 yrs ago I had great hopes for the replacement the Titan which more or less promised the earth in authenticity and functionality but it has taken those 2 yrs to be released. The first batch seemingly had problems and the update looks to be pretty complex. I may try again or opt for a different make of sound card altogether

 

[muns]

Hi Jon
Yes, I know I could have implemented the Massoth but I was being a bit lazy and didn't want to extricate the 1200z from its little 'home' in the 'rack' in the conservatory!
But I will purchase one of those green plug banks for future use.
I am going to the gallery where it is warm and I have the sprog set up. I will use the MTS III set that I was going to sell as the power supply etc.

It was just so convenient in the dining room with the little 1 amp supply...just goes to show...cut corners and you end up short..........

I have one of those connectors in stock - £7

 

[Zerogee]

Ooops, sorry Mark - should have checked your site first!!

There you go, Mike - much cheaper than buying it from Germany this time!
Jon.

 

[beavercreek]

Well I have set up the Sprog and Decoder Pro 3 DCC programmer and tested the locos in the following order
1) New Climax with factory fitted Tsunami board...totally fine all CVs readable and operated well
2) C19 + 4 different QSI boards...only CVs that could be read were to do with motor operation and when in 'running mode' only motor operates with a delay before acceleration and headlight/rear light come on no matter what direction, no sound or other function CVs can be accessed
3) K27 + 4 different QSI boards the same happened as with the C19 except that the lights now worked as in the direction of the motor.

All of the QSI boards showed as having CV29 DC operation 'on'

Is there a conflict between the Sprog and QSI ?