Prototypical train passing siding at stations - part 2: Track triangle

65 1057

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This is just to inspire you to consider in your next project a track triangle (Gleisdreieck) instead of a siding as shown in part 1. You will need just 3 switches for 3 trains and 4 locos, and you will have lots of operational effort (=fun, I hope). The prototype is the station Siersleben. Train 10 from Kupferkammerhütte is the first train and runs directly into the station on track A and stops at the H board.

1534070767024.png



In order to free up the track A for train 21 (which is imaptiently waiting at the Trapeztafel), Train 10 pulls forward up to the shunting limit sign (half-moon) and rolls back into track C.


1534070915913.png

In real scale it looks as follows: I stopped as Train 21 pretty close to the Trapeztafel since the rails were slippery, so it makes sense to have an adequate safety distance to the shunting limit. Train 10 pulls his coaches from track A.
1534071192086.png

Once Train 10 is safely behind the Fouling Point marker of track C, the driver gives the acoustic ZP11 Signal long - short - long, and after the acknowledge whistle train 21 rolls into the Station:

1534071583137.png


You have now 2 trains in the Station, Train 10 in the Background is already leaving the station to Thondorf from track C. Note my timetable (sorry for the Quality):
It says in column 4: "Train 21 has to stop at the Trapeztafel".
1534071802982.png1534071906287.png

Meanwhile train 36 from Kupferkammerhütte stopped at the Trapeztafel:

1534072145411.png



The only chance to speed up is to send train 36 into track B an let Train 21 start to Kupferkammerhütte. Note the shunting diesel SD in the right corner.

1534072677783.png


Imagine train 10 did not left yet the station, and train 36 just arrived so that Train 21 cannot not leave the station, you have the following prototypical situation:
on the right Train 21 for Kupferkammerhütte on track A (The Fichtelbergbahn- loco was decorated as No.12 "Patriot")
on the left Train 35 from Kupferkammerhütte on track B
In the background train 10 to Thondorf on track C

1534072992444.png
1534073144408.png

Track C on the right, track A on the left
1534073193586.png

So now we have a problem: Train 36 on track B has to return to Kupferkammerhütte, but the chimney has to point in the same direction (steep grades).
The solution: The steam loco parks on track C, and the diesel shunter pulls the coaches down on the abandonned track:

1534073367190.png



The steam loco returns to track B, and the diesel shunter pushes the coaches to the steam loco:

1534073558181.png



The diesel is back on the abandonned track, the newly combined train is now called 37, and the former Train 21 returns as Train 22 from Kupferkammerhütte.
He has to wait at the Trapeztafel until train 37 gives the signal long-short-long.

1534073682474.png

You can easily complicate this Situation (as happened in real life...) :
Imagine Train 22 is pretty late, so the next Train 44 from Thondorf is already waiting at the Trapeztafel.
You as the dispatcher under time pressure could decide to

1) let train 22 first into the Station to not loose more time for the passenger exchange
2) send train 44 directly to track C
3) let train 22 out for Thondorf
4) let train 37 out for Kupferkammerhütte
5) train 44 pushes back from track C over the road back to track A

I would be happy if one of you would consider this idea on his layout!

I found a video that shows as of 04:40 the typical sequence with 2 trains only:
 
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stockers

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An excellent post. Informative with some great photos - Thanks
 
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Alec K

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This is just to inspire you to consider in your next project a track triangle (Gleisdreieck) instead of a siding as shown in part 1. You will need just 3 switches for 3 trains and 4 locos, and you will have lots of operational effort (=fun, I hope). The prototype is the station Siersleben. Train 10 from Kupferkammerhütte is the first train and runs directly into the station on track A and stops at the H board.

View attachment 241867



In order to free up the track A for train 21 (which is imaptiently waiting at the Trapeztafel), Train 10 pulls forward up to the shunting limit sign (half-moon) and rolls back into track C.


View attachment 241869

In real scale it looks as follows: I stopped as Train 21 pretty close to the Trapeztafel since the rails were slippery, so it makes sense to have an adequate safety distance to the shunting limit. Train 10 pulls his coaches from track A.
View attachment 241870

Once Train 10 is safely behind the Fouling Point marker of track C, the driver gives the acoustic ZP11 Signal long - short - long, and after the acknowledge whistle train 21 rolls into the Station:

View attachment 241871


You have now 2 trains in the Station, Train 10 in the Background is already leaving the station to Thondorf from track C. Note my timetable (sorry for the Quality):
It says in column 4: "Train 21 has to stop at the Trapeztafel".
View attachment 241872View attachment 241873

Meanwhile train 36 from Kupferkammerhütte stopped at the Trapeztafel:

View attachment 241874



The only chance to speed up is to send train 36 into track B an let Train 21 start to Kupferkammerhütte. Note the shunting diesel SD in the right corner.

View attachment 241875


Imagine train 10 did not left yet the station, and train 36 just arrived so that Train 21 cannot not leave the station, you have the following prototypical situation:
on the right Train 21 for Kupferkammerhütte on track A (The Fichtelbergbahn- loco was decorated as No.12 "Patriot")
on the left Train 35 from Kupferkammerhütte on track B
In the background train 10 to Thondorf on track C

View attachment 241876
View attachment 241877

Track C on the right, track A on the left
View attachment 241878

So now we have a problem: Train 36 on track B has to return to Kupferkammerhütte, but the chimney has to point in the same direction (steep grades).
The solution: The steam loco parks on track C, and the diesel shunter pulls the coaches down on the abandonned track:

View attachment 241879



The steam loco returns to track B, and the diesel shunter pushes the coaches to the steam loco:

View attachment 241880



The diesel is back on the abandonned track, the newly combined train is now called 37, and the former Train 21 returns as Train 22 from Kupferkammerhütte.
He has to wait at the Trapeztafel until train 37 gives the signal long-short-long.

View attachment 241881

You can easily complicate this Situation (as happened in real life...) :
Imagine Train 22 is pretty late, so the next Train 44 from Thondorf is already waiting at the Trapeztafel.
You as the dispatcher under time pressure could decide to

1) let train 22 first into the Station to not loose more time for the passenger exchange
2) send train 44 directly to track C
3) let train 22 out for Thondorf
4) let train 37 out for Kupferkammerhütte
5) train 44 pushes back from track C over the road back to track A

I would be happy if one of you would consider this idea on his layout!

I found a video that shows as of 04:40 the typical sequence with 2 trains only:
Absolutely brilliant - step-by-step instruction from a professional. Thank you very much indeed.
 

65 1057

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Thank you for your nice comments! And now let me know how such a situation is managed on light railways in the US and the UK.
When I look at this old Video from 1986 I think in the Waldviertel (Austria) they have a similar style:
(For whatever reason you have to copy this string IMncplX2jQA into youtube, then it should work.)
Note the different fouling point markers - a white bar with black ends.
 
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dunnyrail

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This is just to inspire you to consider in your next project a track triangle (Gleisdreieck) instead of a siding as shown in part 1. You will need just 3 switches for 3 trains and 4 locos, and you will have lots of operational effort (=fun, I hope). The prototype is the station Siersleben. Train 10 from Kupferkammerhütte is the first train and runs directly into the station on track A and stops at the H board.

View attachment 241867



In order to free up the track A for train 21 (which is imaptiently waiting at the Trapeztafel), Train 10 pulls forward up to the shunting limit sign (half-moon) and rolls back into track C.


View attachment 241869

In real scale it looks as follows: I stopped as Train 21 pretty close to the Trapeztafel since the rails were slippery, so it makes sense to have an adequate safety distance to the shunting limit. Train 10 pulls his coaches from track A.
View attachment 241870

Once Train 10 is safely behind the Fouling Point marker of track C, the driver gives the acoustic ZP11 Signal long - short - long, and after the acknowledge whistle train 21 rolls into the Station:

View attachment 241871


You have now 2 trains in the Station, Train 10 in the Background is already leaving the station to Thondorf from track C. Note my timetable (sorry for the Quality):
It says in column 4: "Train 21 has to stop at the Trapeztafel".
View attachment 241872View attachment 241873

Meanwhile train 36 from Kupferkammerhütte stopped at the Trapeztafel:

View attachment 241874



The only chance to speed up is to send train 36 into track B an let Train 21 start to Kupferkammerhütte. Note the shunting diesel SD in the right corner.

View attachment 241875


Imagine train 10 did not left yet the station, and train 36 just arrived so that Train 21 cannot not leave the station, you have the following prototypical situation:
on the right Train 21 for Kupferkammerhütte on track A (The Fichtelbergbahn- loco was decorated as No.12 "Patriot")
on the left Train 35 from Kupferkammerhütte on track B
In the background train 10 to Thondorf on track C

View attachment 241876
View attachment 241877

Track C on the right, track A on the left
View attachment 241878

So now we have a problem: Train 36 on track B has to return to Kupferkammerhütte, but the chimney has to point in the same direction (steep grades).
The solution: The steam loco parks on track C, and the diesel shunter pulls the coaches down on the abandonned track:

View attachment 241879



The steam loco returns to track B, and the diesel shunter pushes the coaches to the steam loco:

View attachment 241880



The diesel is back on the abandonned track, the newly combined train is now called 37, and the former Train 21 returns as Train 22 from Kupferkammerhütte.
He has to wait at the Trapeztafel until train 37 gives the signal long-short-long.

View attachment 241881

You can easily complicate this Situation (as happened in real life...) :
Imagine Train 22 is pretty late, so the next Train 44 from Thondorf is already waiting at the Trapeztafel.
You as the dispatcher under time pressure could decide to

1) let train 22 first into the Station to not loose more time for the passenger exchange
2) send train 44 directly to track C
3) let train 22 out for Thondorf
4) let train 37 out for Kupferkammerhütte
5) train 44 pushes back from track C over the road back to track A

I would be happy if one of you would consider this idea on his layout!

I found a video that shows as of 04:40 the typical sequence with 2 trains only:
Another interesting scenario. Whilst I have no space for a Triangle I can replicate the scene in the Vid by passing two trains at a Junction that I have with my Continuous Run. The effect that the vid shows is like passing at a Station with just a single siding and no loop. There is also a very interesting Triangular Fouling Point Marker where the first train has done its hidy to let the second one pass. Great posting.
 

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The abandoned line is now being used as a “headshunt”.
Having some difficulty visualising a UK version, the need to turn the locos for operational reasons is a bit of a problem that will need some more thought.
The good news is that using this track layout is standard US practice for turning locos, usually referred to as a “wye”?
 

Zerogee

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Really fascinating information, and very well explained and illustrated - please keep it coming! :)

Jon.
 

chris m01

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I found this thread to be quite inspirational. I may have to make my triangle for access to my storage sidings a little larger and turn it into a three platform station. Had a little trial run today to see how it would work out based on the opening item in this thread. I'll have to do a bit of earthwork and a bit of scenic work; could be a good winter project.

 
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I found this thread to be quite inspirational. I may have to make my triangle for access to my storage sidings a little larger and turn it into a three platform station. Had a little trial run today to see how it would work out based on the opening item in this thread. I'll have to do a bit of earthwork and a bit of scenic work; could be a good winter project.

Great bit of Vid to show the Prototypical Example in the Model World. How much more fun our trains are when we involve ourselves with a prototypical scenario. Plus that little lot took roughly 8 minutes to enact (probably longer had some edits not been carried out). How time flies when you are having fun.

Thinking through what you will be doing on your project, I presume that Fouling Point Markers, Stopping Boards, calling forward Signals and Limit of Shunt signs of some sort will be included in your project? They do not bpnecessarily have to follow the German ones, a design of your own as it is your Railway so long as the meaning is understood would work just as well.

At last the Forum jumps into real Operations in a big and interesting way.
 
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chris m01

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Great bit of Vid to show the Prototypical Example in the Model World. How much more fun our trains are when we involve ourselves with a prototypical scenario. Plus that little lot took roughly 8 minutes to enact (probably longer had some edits not been carried out). How time flies when you are having fun.

Thinking through what you will be doing on your project, I presume that Fouling Point Markers, Stopping Boards, calling forward Signals and Limit of Shunt signs of some sort will be included in your project? They do not bpnecessarily have to follow the German ones, a design of your own as it is your Railway so long as the meaning is understood would work just as well.

At last the Forum jumps into real Operations in a big and interesting way.

Thanks. Yes I find time flies when operating a layout for a reason although it is also very pleasant to sit back and watch trains going round. Luckily for me I can do both. I've yet to decide to actually go ahead with developing the triangle but this morning it still feels like a good thing to do. The thought of putting up marker boards is a good one; it would give visitors a challenge to work through the sequence and obey all the rules based on the signs.

This would be a reasonable sized job. I would move at least one of the points on the main line in order to create a longer triangle. I would have to build some solid ground to replace the decking and timber supports in the triangle area and of course build platforms etc. Also the entry points for my storage sidings would have to move two or three feet down the line. This means extending the covered storage sidings by two or three feet at the other end. As luck would have it the shrub at the far end of the sidings has just died so there is space...
 

dunnyrail

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Thanks. Yes I find time flies when operating a layout for a reason although it is also very pleasant to sit back and watch trains going round. Luckily for me I can do both. I've yet to decide to actually go ahead with developing the triangle but this morning it still feels like a good thing to do. The thought of putting up marker boards is a good one; it would give visitors a challenge to work through the sequence and obey all the rules based on the signs.

This would be a reasonable sized job. I would move at least one of the points on the main line in order to create a longer triangle. I would have to build some solid ground to replace the decking and timber supports in the triangle area and of course build platforms etc. Also the entry points for my storage sidings would have to move two or three feet down the line. This means extending the covered storage sidings by two or three feet at the other end. As luck would have it the shrub at the far end of the sidings has just died so there is space...
Looks like my well known talent for suggesting to people lots of work to do has not abated!
 
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ntpntpntp

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Great stuff!
Track power users just remember that a wye or triangle formation will require isolation and polarity change-over (DPDT or electronics) just like a reverse loop.
 

Zerogee

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Great stuff!
Track power users just remember that a wye or triangle formation will require isolation and polarity change-over (DPDT or electronics) just like a reverse loop.

A timely reminder, Nick! I'm sure that a lot of folks, especially those new to the hobby, may not immediately realise that a Wye is electrically the same problem as a Reversing Loop....

Jon.
 

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I thought it would be appropriate to add to the request by 65 1057 for some British Practice at a Triangle. I have chosen Moyasta Jcn on the West Clare Line in Southern Ireland. I used this as it is a great example of a Simple Station that could be eminently modelled in a relatively small space. With a Continuous Loop and just a through Station plus a small Terminus or even Shed with Fiddle Yard these sequences of events could easily be replicated.



But first a little about the Station to set the background and indeed help to understand the layout. Firstly the to Destinations are a little messed up due to a quirk in my CAD Package and the to enni should read Ennis via Doonbeg.



The line is a long rambling one of some 48 Miles from Ennis to Kilkee (Moyasta Jcn 43) with a further 4.5 miles from Moyasta Junction to Cappagh Pier via Kilrush. Moyasta Jcn was worked by a mixture of Electric Train Staff between Doonbeg and Moyasta Jcn (S3). Staff and Ticket Working between Moyasta Jcn and Kilkee (S5), Moyasta Jcn and Kilrush (S6) plus East to West Moyasta Jcn (S4). The Staff and Ticket working permitted up to 4 Trains in the same section, separated by 10 minute Time Intervals. By todays standards a pretty Dangerous State of affairs! Though once Telephones had been installed it would have been possible subject to running time and delays to confirm the Arrival of a Train.



There would appear to have been some confusion with the Operation of the Line as to whether the run from Ennis to Kilrush or Kilkee was the main line forward from Moyasta Jcn, trains running equally happily to both destinations. Shuttle Services ran between Kilrush and Kilkee via Moyasta Jcn. If there was no connecting Train the route taken would be via the Platform rather than where the Island Platform with Station Building is shown. If a Train needed to connect at Moyasta the hapless Passenger was not expected to Sprint from the Platform but would interchange at the Station. A through Train from Kilkee to Kilrush would run to the Station interchange with the through Train from Kilrush at the Island then reverse back to the Junction no doubt with the Staff S4 and S6 in his hands. Possibly even S5 as well. Thus the complete line between Kilrush, Kilkee and the Junction Point would be available to that one Train. Though in probability the Signalman would may given a Ticket for the Complete line beyond Moyasta. The only Time when two Trains would be present being when the Goods came out to Killush where perhaps proper Staff and Tickets would have been issued. I am surmising much of this as the book that I have does not amplify the complexities of working in detail. The signalling is somewhat surmised, that on the Station is as has been confirmed by Photographs. The additional on towards Ennis is sen in Pictures but it is difficult to establish which line it refers to, quite likely the Loop Line as shown as I have a Picture of a Train heading towards Ennis via that loop so that signal would be used where Trains from and to Ennis and either of the same destination would need to use the loop for passing. Trains are Down from Ennis and I assume that the Bracket Signal at the end of the Loop giving information as to which route will be taken rather than the Shorter One bing for the other Road in the Loop.



The period that I will be looking at towards the end of the line was dominated by Single Ended Units often dragging a Trailer Car and a Couple of Centre Cab Locomotives used for predominantly Goods working but also with a Coach or two if there were shortages with railcars. The Railcars being Single Ended to the same design as those used on the Isle of Man have to be Turned at each Terminus. At Moyasta on non through Trains the Triangle is used to Turn them.



I will now describe as I understand the working would be Train 4 the 1100 Ennis to Kilkee arriving 1.15 calling at Moyasta Jcn at 1.01 to 1.07. This will be connected into by Train 14 the 1250 from Kilrush due at the Jcn at 1258. Returning as Train 25 at 1.11 due Kilrush at 1.20.



This scenario will commence with Train 14 entering Stage Left to the Left Hand side of the Station at 1258. Then Train 4 from Ennis would eventually make its appearance passing the Lower Bracket Signal which would have been lowered for it to arrive at the Right Hand side of the Station. Things will be quite busy now with regulars changing Trains without a care in the world. Unfamiliar Passengers will be asking and double checking their forward trains. Those from Ennis for Kilrush clearly being Confused by being directed to a Diesel Unit that looks for all the world like it is to return them to Ennis. Eventually amongst all the Confusion Train 4 (now renumbered as Train 14!) will continue its Journey to Kilkee at 1.07. Finally at 1.11 the Kilrush Train 25 will depart towards Ennis stopping just beyond the Bracket no doubt to further Confuse the hapless do not knows that they are indeed heading back towards Ennis, but the Lower Signal will be pulled off allowing the Railcar to reverse towards the Kilkee End Ground Frame where it will reverse and head off (finally) towards Kilrush. I assume that the Train Crew will in all cases Operate the Ground Frame Points as appropriate.



As for Tokens, Train 14 might likely have arrived on a Ticket, this being Cancelled when the Train has safely arrived. Train 4/14 from Ennis would have arrived on the Electric Token Released from Doonbeg. It would work forwards to Kilkee with the S5 Token for the section Moyasta Jcn to Kilkee. This then begs the question as to how Train 25 manages to negotiate S5 from the Station to the End Ground Frame? It could clearly have the East West Token and the one from the Jcn to Kilrush. Being Staff Sections beyond the Box normal Station Limits working would not apply. Of such wonders and questions were the narrow gauge Railways of Ireland run.

Moyasta Operating Notes.jpeg
 
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Fezwig

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There was, I seam to remember (1988) a similar converluted move at Limerick jnc, Ireland on which 4 trains all called at the station from all points of the compass, trying to recall exactly how it worked, but it involved a diamond crossing, 2 bay platforms and 2 trains on one long platform with a sissor cross over, oh and a fare bit of propelling past the station front!! Tamayo may know more?
 

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I thought it would be appropriate to add to the request by 65 1057 for some British Practice at a Triangle. I have chosen Moyasta Jcn on the West Clare Line in Southern Ireland. I used this as it is a great example of a Simple Station that could be eminently modelled in a relatively small space. With a Continuous Loop and just a through Station plus a small Terminus or even Shed with Fiddle Yard these sequences of events could easily be replicated.



But first a little about the Station to set the background and indeed help to understand the layout. Firstly the to Destinations are a little messed up due to a quirk in my CAD Package and the to enni should read Ennis via Doonbeg.



The line is a long rambling one of some 48 Miles from Ennis to Kilkee (Moyasta Jcn 43) with a further 4.5 miles from Moyasta Junction to Cappagh Pier via Kilrush. Moyasta Jcn was worked by a mixture of Electric Train Staff between Doonbeg and Moyasta Jcn (S3). Staff and Ticket Working between Moyasta Jcn and Kilkee (S5), Moyasta Jcn and Kilrush (S6) plus East to West Moyasta Jcn (S4). The Staff and Ticket working permitted up to 4 Trains in the same section, separated by 10 minute Time Intervals. By todays standards a pretty Dangerous State of affairs! Though once Telephones had been installed it would have been possible subject to running time and delays to confirm the Arrival of a Train.



There would appear to have been some confusion with the Operation of the Line as to whether the run from Ennis to Kilrush or Kilkee was the main line forward from Moyasta Jcn, trains running equally happily to both destinations. Shuttle Services ran between Kilrush and Kilkee via Moyasta Jcn. If there was no connecting Train the route taken would be via the Platform rather than where the Island Platform with Station Building is shown. If a Train needed to connect at Moyasta the hapless Passenger was not expected to Sprint from the Platform but would interchange at the Station. A through Train from Kilkee to Kilrush would run to the Station interchange with the through Train from Kilrush at the Island then reverse back to the Junction no doubt with the Staff S4 and S6 in his hands. Possibly even S5 as well. Thus the complete line between Kilrush, Kilkee and the Junction Point would be available to that one Train. Though in probability the Signalman would may given a Ticket for the Complete line beyond Moyasta. The only Time when two Trains would be present being when the Goods came out to Killush where perhaps proper Staff and Tickets would have been issued. I am surmising much of this as the book that I have does not amplify the complexities of working in detail. The signalling is somewhat surmised, that on the Station is as has been confirmed by Photographs. The additional on towards Ennis is sen in Pictures but it is difficult to establish which line it refers to, quite likely the Loop Line as shown as I have a Picture of a Train heading towards Ennis via that loop so that signal would be used where Trains from and to Ennis and either of the same destination would need to use the loop for passing. Trains are Down from Ennis and I assume that the Bracket Signal at the end of the Loop giving information as to which route will be taken rather than the Shorter One bing for the other Road in the Loop.



The period that I will be looking at towards the end of the line was dominated by Single Ended Units often dragging a Trailer Car and a Couple of Centre Cab Locomotives used for predominantly Goods working but also with a Coach or two if there were shortages with railcars. The Railcars being Single Ended to the same design as those used on the Isle of Man have to be Turned at each Terminus. At Moyasta on non through Trains the Triangle is used to Turn them.



I will now describe as I understand the working would be Train 4 the 1100 Ennis to Kilkee arriving 1.15 calling at Moyasta Jcn at 1.01 to 1.07. This will be connected into by Train 14 the 1250 from Kilrush due at the Jcn at 1258. Returning as Train 25 at 1.11 due Kilrush at 1.20.



This scenario will commence with Train 14 entering Stage Left to the Left Hand side of the Station at 1258. Then Train 4 from Ennis would eventually make its appearance passing the Lower Bracket Signal which would have been lowered for it to arrive at the Right Hand side of the Station. Things will be quite busy now with regulars changing Trains without a care in the world. Unfamiliar Passengers will be asking and double checking their forward trains. Those from Ennis for Kilrush clearly being Confused by being directed to a Diesel Unit that looks for all the world like it is to return them to Ennis. Eventually amongst all the Confusion Train 4 (now renumbered as Train 14!) will continue its Journey to Kilkee at 1.07. Finally at 1.11 the Kilrush Train 25 will depart towards Ennis stopping just beyond the Bracket no doubt to further Confuse the hapless do not knows that they are indeed heading back towards Ennis, but the Lower Signal will be pulled off allowing the Railcar to reverse towards the Kilkee End Ground Frame where it will reverse and head off (finally) towards Kilrush. I assume that the Train Crew will in all cases Operate the Ground Frame Points as appropriate.



As for Tokens, Train 14 might likely have arrived on a Ticket, this being Cancelled when the Train has safely arrived. Train 4/14 from Ennis would have arrived on the Electric Token Released from Doonbeg. It would work forwards to Kilkee with the S5 Token for the section Moyasta Jcn to Kilkee. This then begs the question as to how Train 25 manages to negotiate S5 from the Station to the End Ground Frame? It could clearly have the East West Token and the one from the Jcn to Kilrush. Being Staff Sections beyond the Box normal Station Limits working would not apply. Of such wonders and questions were the narrow gauge Railways of Ireland run.

View attachment 241933
Brilliant, I was thinking that a British prototype would have a loop at one of the corners of the triangle; just didn’t know there there was one.
 

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JonD has done well to describe the workings at Moyasta 1960/61. The line closed on 01 Feb 1961 & the CIE did their usual trick of cancelling the last train from Ennis 1620 & running a bus because of the considerable opposition to the closure. (It ran as a goods behind F501 loco which started lifting the track next day). I was on a railtour in Ireland the 1970's I got talking to a chap opposite me about the WClare which he knew well & workings at Moyasta. He told me when the Kilrush branch unit needed changing over (it was normally 3387 unit) Then the morning Ennis train would run to Kilrush vice Kilkee & become the branch unit. The unit from Kilrush would go to Kilkee & return to Ennis. But how they got round any attachments on the Ennis train, leave them in the loop? for attachment. When I was at Loughrea in 1971 to do the evening mixed, I was talking to the station master, I asked him had he always been there, he said no he had been on the ' mainline' at Moyasta on the West Clare. He would have know all about the workings!
 

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WOW! Thank you very much JonD and all the other contributors! I have to confess I have to learn first the "inner nature" of the staff & ticket system. This helped me a lot: Staff and Ticket - SignallingWA
It still confuses me that so many signal men are in place, but the staff / ticket is in use and even requires a signalmen to e.g. cancel a ticket. OK-without telephone connection I would understand.
The biggest difference I can see at the moment is that the German system requires one single coordinator who receives the status messages / departure requests from all trains and in the staff/ticket system the signalmen communicate directly or indirectly with each other. Give me more time to understand...:blush:
 

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WOW! Thank you very much JonD and all the other contributors! I have to confess I have to learn first the "inner nature" of the staff & ticket system. This helped me a lot: Staff and Ticket - SignallingWA
It still confuses me that so many signal men are in place, but the staff / ticket is in use and even requires a signalmen to e.g. cancel a ticket. OK-without telephone connection I would understand.
The biggest difference I can see at the moment is that the German system requires one single coordinator who receives the status messages / departure requests from all trains and in the staff/ticket system the signalmen communicate directly or indirectly with each other. Give me more time to understand...:blush:
The example you give for Staff and Ticket is Western Australia, but from a quick read my Low Level of understanding of Staff and ticket suggests that it is similar to the English System.

As for Germany I am not quite so sure about the single coordinator. Thinking about the Selktalbahn I would imagine that there may have been coordinators at Gernrode, Alexisbad and perhaps Stiege? This would make more sence in my mind as each would be a busy sort of place at times, with links to each other and to perhaps Eisenfelder Talmuhle on the Trans Harz. Please correct me if I am wrong here but these places appear to have had some of the Blockfeld equipment about as indeed did Magdesprung and Straßerg that I could see as passing places. I also seam to remember on various trips the Train Guard going to small boxes at other Stations used for passing in the way you described in your other article and putting a Key into a box perhaps confirming the Train location to a Coordinator?

As you can see I have noticed things occuring but over many years (1981-2016) so could be confusing different ways of Operating the Selketalbahn. Like you I am interested in the system that applies in Germany.