Proposed new SBLR - need advice about wood for track support.

[Martino]

Having my previous incarnation of the SBLR built at ground level , the railway was supported either on buried blocks or on floating ballast. Worked well in Florida and lasted for 15 years until our move to Georgia earlier this year. As I’ve reported, trying to find a flat area up our mountain is a challenge. My latest scheme is to run the line elevated and hung off brackets from the fence. I’ve attached a photo of the fenced area (ignore the red annotations, they were for a company that’s going to be laying artificial turf). My aim is to have brackets off the inside of the fence to carry the track. Obviously there will be more elaborate constructions at the station end. However my request is about the wood to use for the the actual track bed. I don’t want to use reclaimed stuff like Filcris (not available in the US anyway) as I think the structural integrity of wood will be better. My thought is to use a treated timber board. Do those of you who’ve done this cover the wood with anything? I’ve seen people using roofing felt, but not sure if this is available in this part of the US. We do have roof shingles, but it’s not quite the same.

Hence my request for suggestions. Many thanks in advance everyone.

 

[Chris Vernell]

I don’t want to use reclaimed stuff like Filcris (not available in the US anyway) as I think the structural integrity of wood will be better. My thought is to use a treated timber board. Do those of you who’ve done this cover the wood with anything? I’ve seen people using roofing felt, but not sure if this is available in this part of the US. We do have roof shingles, but it’s not quite the same.
Hence my request for suggestions. Many thanks in advance everyone.

I started out years ago using red cedar, which has natural rot and pest resistance, but it has become too pricey for my pension. I use pressure treated (PT) lumber these days. I do not cover the wood with tarpaper or anything else, including ballast, as it tends to trap moisture. I tried wood stain, but it wears off horizontal surfaces rapidly, so apart from treating cut ends, I no longer bother. The wood has lasted through several winters (cold, snow/ice loads for months on end) and summers, which can be quite hot and humid.
Artificial lumber is available under various trade names, but has problems with expansion/contraction, needs more support than wood 2-by-x, and is also pricey. I did consider it for a while, but was dissuaded.
Looking at some of my older (cedar) lumber as I have been fiddling with the landscaping, I see I will probably have to replace some boards soon as decay has set in where rock and earth had moved into close contact in the south-end cutting. For the time being, I have simply opened an air gap between ground and wood.
At the risk of triggering wrath and indignation, I will mention that Fred Mills (look up Ottawa Valley Garden Railway Society) has a regular lumber replacement program on his extensive and excellent railroad. He also uses PT without covering, cut-end treatment only.

 

[Martino]

Thank you Chris. That’s great info. I‘m working on the line not coming into contact with the ground for the most part. We’re not subject to long periods of snow and ice, although it does get hot and humid in Summer. We can also get times when we’re in the cloud for days, and I suppose that’s fairly wet ;-). Good to know that you don’t use a covering, or indeed ballast.

 

[dunnyrail]

I have timber based boards that have lasted years, but they have been covered in roofing felt sadly apparently not available in your area. Could there be a better form of preservation available for wood in your area?

I would caution against using fencing to hang your railway on. This can often end in tears as I note from your picture that the posts are set innthe ground, possibly in concrete or not. Either way those posts will rot and heavy winds with additional load could cause problems also.

I would be tempted to think about a self supporting line with perhaps double supports on small paving pads bit like a UK Exhibition Layout, I am sure you get the concept. Wider parts could have planters to give some vegetation, an exhibition 16mm layout in uk has been built in thin planters with succulents and low growing plants within. See pictures of this years 16mm show at Peterborough. See post 32 on this link.

https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/national-garden-railway-show-2023-at-peterborough-arena.319656/page-2#post-695299

 

[Martino]

Thanks Jon. Good point about the fence posts. I think the only bits supported by the outer fence posts would be a single line, so not to much weight. Also those posts are secured to the base supporting wall/cribbing. The heavy sections (station and yard area) would be self supported on one side and attached to the right hand side wall which is pretty stable and bolted in. If that shifts, we’ve got problems with the whole house!

Going to wait until the wood is sealed and stained (in two weeks) and the area is either turfed/sodded (unlikely) or has artificial grass (most likely) installed. then I can do measuring and an a full assessment.

Thanks again..

 

[PhilP]

Wow!
What is the view like from that room on stilts?


PhilP

 

[Fred2179G]

There's a guy in Texas (?) with a line on a hillside [I'll look for a photo on Facebook and steal it,] and he uses track supports that look like steel viaduct supports. The outside of his line has clear perspex (or similar) guards to stop the trains falling down the hill. It's quite spectacular from the inside.

 

[Martino]

There's a guy in Texas (?) with a line on a hillside [I'll look for a photo on Facebook and steal it,] and he uses track supports that look like steel viaduct supports. The outside of his line has clear perspex (or similar) guards to stop the trains falling down the hill. It's quite spectacular from the inside.

Amazing. I’d like to see that.

 

[Martino]

Wow!
What is the view like from that room on stilts?


PhilP

Well, it’s the view that sold us on the house. Difficult to get a pic from the porch as it’s screened against insects, but this is today from the room along side. ….and one from the other evening. We’re incredibly lucky with the view.

 

[Fred2179G]

I’d like to see that.

Here you go:

 

[Martino]

Here you go:

Spectacular. I think that may be beyond my capabilities!

 

[Fred2179G]

I think that may be beyond my capabilities!

Well, you already have the fence. But same fence in your first photo looks to be on a slight downward grade, which means your railroad is going to be low down on the fence at the back by the house and high on the fence at the outer slope - if it is to be at all level!
I suspect it wouldn't be too hard to have one part of the outer section high enough to be above the fence top rail - so you'd need something to stop the trains disappearing if they derail? How about a strip of perspex?
Then you can get the same effect for a short distance, with that great view in the background.

 

[Rentrain]

Here in Southern California I am using steel 2x3 for all support structure or reclaimed pressure treated and painted wood from a deck redo. Steel studs/channels are like the ones from Home Depot/Lowe's but purchased from a building supply place as they offer them in thicker gauges. They have been outside for a couple of years and no noticeable weathering, etc. They are all galvanized by the mfg. No movement or warping and go together with a few clamps and screws. Extremely lightweight. For a fence post support, you can run a channel on the back horizontally and make stringers extend of like shelf brackets and meet another channel in the front. An angled support from the front channel down to the fence post will support a lot. You can also make shelf brackets like triangles protruding from the posts. For mine, we have it free standing in front of the fence/walls on 2x PT legs. For the top, I am using 1/2" tile GoBoard. It's a fiberglass 1/2" foam-core board for tiling showers, etc. It's waterproof, strong and gives a flat surface. It does need support under it to stop sagging - I do every 14-18". Nails can hold track in place but extreme weather can pull it up. Tested with exterior latex caulk and that works surprising well to hold track in place. Screws can be used through track , through foamboard into steel frame for permanence.

Many people are intimidated by steel studs, but once they use it, it's been well received. The Los Angeles Model Railroad Society is a club I belong to and we use it to support our sectional HO layout indoors. Far better than only L-girder and the like. We have pics on our Facebook page.

Mike

 

[Martino]

err…….yes. The line would need to be at various levels. It’s all do-able I suppose. I think that once the wood treatment and the grass is sorted a major measuring session is called for. I’d like to have a station area with buildings and that I think I can accomplish along side the wood retaining wall actually under the porch on stilts. That would provide some cover too. Then I would extend a single running line with a passing place that would run around the fence. That would be at various levels relative to the fence in order to keep things level-ish. Then ending up in a ground level area over to the far side. No continuous run, or at least I can’t see how that could be accomplished at the moment.
Measuring tape and spirit level is waiting in my future.

 

[Martino]

Here in Southern California I am using steel 2x3 for all support structure or reclaimed pressure treated and painted wood from a deck redo. Steel studs/channels are like the ones from Home Depot/Lowe's but purchased from a building supply place as they offer them in thicker gauges. They have been outside for a couple of years and no noticeable weathering, etc. They are all galvanized by the mfg. No movement or warping and go together with a few clamps and screws. Extremely lightweight. For a fence post support, you can run a channel on the back horizontally and make stringers extend of like shelf brackets and meet another channel in the front. An angled support from the front channel down to the fence post will support a lot. You can also make shelf brackets like triangles protruding from the posts. For mine, we have it free standing in front of the fence/walls on 2x PT legs. For the top, I am using 1/2" tile GoBoard. It's a fiberglass 1/2" foam-core board for tiling showers, etc. It's waterproof, strong and gives a flat surface. It does need support under it to stop sagging - I do every 14-18". Nails can hold track in place but extreme weather can pull it up. Tested with exterior latex caulk and that works surprising well to hold track in place. Screws can be used through track , through foamboard into steel frame for permanence.

Many people are intimidated by steel studs, but once they use it, it's been well received. The Los Angeles Model Railroad Society is a club I belong to and we use it to support our sectional HO layout indoors. Far better than only L-girder and the like. We have pics on our Facebook page.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that’s good info. I’ll look into that. Edit: I had a look at the FB page for the LA society and can see what you’re referring to. Looks a good option. I’ll also look at the GoBoard. Thanks again.

 

[dunnyrail]

Spectacular. I think that may be beyond my capabilities!

Indeed so, must have been an awful lot of concrete involved in making them mountains.

 

[Paul M]

Can I please tentatively suggest you rethink about your artificial grass? It does last very long, and sunlight causes it to turn blue in a few years! It's also not environmentally friendly, as it stops the bugs from doing whatever bugs do, and no bugs, everything goes to pot. I know a lit of people use it, and it obviously negates the need for mowing, but it will still need weeding, and the weeds will be deep rooted jobs that will be a b*gg*r to remove

 

[JimmyB]

Can I please tentatively suggest you rethink about your artificial grass? It does last very long, and sunlight causes it to turn blue in a few years! It's also not environmentally friendly, as it stops the bugs from doing whatever bugs do, and no bugs, everything goes to pot. I know a lit of people use it, and it obviously negates the need for mowing, but it will still need weeding, and the weeds will be deep rooted jobs that will be a b*gg*r to remove

I find it okay around my railway for those blank areas where little will grow, but not as a general wholesale replacement for grass.

 

[PhilP]

I don't think turf would do well, on artificially built-up ground? - Irrigation may be an issue, even in the 'hills'?

PhilP

 

[GAP]

Can I please tentatively suggest you rethink about your artificial grass? It does last very long, and sunlight causes it to turn blue in a few years! It's also not environmentally friendly, as it stops the bugs from doing whatever bugs do, and no bugs, everything goes to pot. I know a lit of people use it, and it obviously negates the need for mowing, but it will still need weeding, and the weeds will be deep rooted jobs that will be a b*gg*r to remove

I have artificial turf in my pool area it has been down for over 3 years and is still green with no sign of fading in fact it is guaranteed to hold colour for10 years.
I have a few weed that come up around the edges where the turf butts up against a concrete path but none through the turf, I doubt id anything could push through the rubber backing.
The turf was laid on a base that was smoothed over running by a vibrating plate over it.
The gardens around it are thriving.