Programming Nicki and Frank S

[Wistow vale rlwy]

I changed the address of my Nicki and Frank S (LGB 24266) from the factory-default of 3 to 10. A simple enough procedure (I thought!) but all is not well! Using my remote handset (55015p) and the programming module on a dedicated programming track I carried-out the following:
C _ showing on the hand controller, 01 entered for address CV.
d _ now showing on controller, 10 entered and right direction button pressed to confirm.
Audiable 'click' heard at loco (as has been usual in the past) and C _ again now showing on hand controller.
Powered-down and loco put on railway.
Power applied, loco address 10 selected, loco movement ok, sounds ok but no lighting, front, rear or cab.
Trying button 9 on remote handset (toggle lights on/off) has no effect on lights BUT pressing this button whilst loco is moving has the effect of toggling the speed between low speed and normal speed.
One of the controllable functions of this loco as detailed in the booklet supplied with the model is 'Low speed switching range and Double A switching light' this function is available by pressing 15.
Thinking that maybe the mapping had screwed-up in some way I tried 15 to see if it effected the lights in any way - I got a long locomotive whistle (1) and a short whistle blast (5) together!
OK, lets start again. In the booklet CV 8 is a reset (to defaults I thought) So, back on the programming track I set CV 8 to 8, as detailed in the booklet.
Back out on the line some sort of reset had taken place as the loco had reverted to address 3, but the lighting issue remains and button 9 continues to toggle speed between low and normal running.
Does anyone have any ideas on where I have gone wrong please?
*The loco performed normaly before I attempted to change the address.
(and what is 'Double A switching light?) ???

 

[PhilP]

What brand/model of decoder is fitted?

 

[muns]

Its a new (Marklin) factory fitted decoder Phil.

 

[Wistow vale rlwy]

The saga continues - All 7 bulbs found to be blown, 3 x front, cab and 3 x rear. Replaced all (5v pug-in - Massoth 8311110 - equivelent of LGB E130023 as per instruction booklet) and lights will now toggle with button 9 on the remote handset (55015p) but the loco still also toggles between low/normal speed with each press of button 9.
The lights also appear to be too bright - checked voltage at bulb holders and found to be outputting 22.7v! Powered-down (but not until several more bulbs had blown!) until further info acquired!
Also tried a reset (CV 8 to 8) which automatically reset the address to 3 but no change - lights still outputting 22.7v and button 9 toggles lights and low/normal speed.
I just don't know how changing the address from the factory default of 3 to 10 can have such an adverse effect on the loco! It is looking like a critical failure and the loco is only 3 months old and only test-run until the address change.
The central station is MTS3 (55006p)
Power supply (50110)
Handset (55015p) - It is with this that I have been programming the loco, address (CV 01) only, on a dedicated programming track.
*All other locos remain unaffected, and have also tried changing addresses with no problems. :-\

 

[PhilP]

Resetting the decoder will have set the divider for the light outputs to full track-voltage. - 19-24v depending on settings..
My guess is the reset has reset the decoder functions.
Unfortunately, the 'new' Marklin decoders are not common enough for us to know our way around them particularly.
From my experience of the manuals, they too are not easy to follow..

I will try to do a little research on this, but it may be a few days..

 

[ntpntpntp]

Unfortunately this is precisely why I'm against replying on the DCC decoder to control lighting voltage, it's too easy to do a reset and screw things up. When fitting decoders myself I'd always ensure the lighting has its own voltage regulation.

To read that a factory decoder installation seems NOT to have such regulation is very disappointing indeed.

 

[ntpntpntp]

hmmm... the CV instructions for 24266 here
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/24266_betrieb.pdf

... and are similar to those for the general CV list for other Marklin decoders here:
http://mediencms.maerklin.de/media.php/de/produkte/downloads/Umruestdecoder_mLD-mSD_CV-Liste_DCC.pdf

OK, that's reasonable given that 24266 is supposed to be fitted with a Marklin-designed decoder rather than Massoth. This list seems to show each light output has 3 CVS for effect type, dimmer and effect rate. For example the front light is usually CV 112,113,114, the rear light is 115,116,117, etc. These are the same as those listed for 24266.

However, 24266 instructions give different defaults - maybe these are wrong? The general Marklin list says the defaults are
112 = 1 (steady light I assume - can't find any details of other effects?)
113 = 255 (full voltage)
114 = 20 (20/255 flash rate, about 8% duty cycle)

but 24266 instructions say 113 = 20, 114 = 255 (the values are swapped)

I suspect the general list is correct, ie. since the decoder reset CV 113=255 which would be why 5V lights are now blowing? Could try setting 113 = 50 (that should give about 5 volts?) and measure the front light output voltage?

Ideally we could do with a full readout of the current CV settings - something that would be easy to do using a SPROG and JMRI DecoderPro, or maybe with the LGB/Massoth programmer?

 

[Wistow vale rlwy]

Thanks,lads,for all the valuable information - I now have a little more direction in my fault-finding,however,this will wait until I purchase a SPROG or similar,as I only have my universal remote to program with at the moment.I am most disappointed that a simple address change can not be carried-out with the handset without causing sixth problems.I have found a helpline for Marklin which I will try after the holidays,and,if it actually exists,will express my concerns. And yes,the instructions supplied with the models could be a little clearer! Thanks again lads for all your help,wishing you a Merry Christmas from The Wistow Vale Rlwy.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Well, normally changing the decoder short address is a simple change to CV 1 and in no way should it touch anything to do with any other CVs. Changing the long address is via CVs 17 and 18, and again that would not normally have any effect on other settings.

I have no experience of using the LGB handsets to program decoders, but sounds to me like something's gone awry during programming I did notice there's a whole section in the 24266 instructions specifically related to programming using the Universal remote, and the different procedures to be used depending on which CV. Doesn't seem to be a particularly user-friendly way of programming, but MTS is very old technology now. I always use my SPROG for all my decoders (various scales from N to G).

You'll find it so much easier when you get your SPROG. My first tip would be to make sure you read all current CVs for all your locos and create roster entries for each, so that you have a backup!

 

[Wistow vale rlwy]

Sound advice Nick, and I'll follow it up when I get my SPROG.

 

[PhilP]

I think the first problem was (probably) the programming of the address..
Possibly you only needed to input '1', rather then '01' for this decoder??
The '0' function is quite often used for the lighting control.. The decoder may well not have liked the leading zero??

Again, I have no real experience of programming with the MTS kit. It is 'of an age', with its' own idiosyncrasies.

 

[Wistow vale rlwy]

Yes Philp, I think you may be right about the extra 0 - I have ordered a SPROG today and will re-programme the loco to the default parameters using the booklet supplied with the loco (if the information can be trusted) but the default value for CV 113 is 20, and my reset of CV 8 to 8 did nothing to drop the lighting supply to 5v, and I guess that this CV has the default set at max value - 255? I will know more when I get my SPROG - however, the lead-time is 3-4 weeks. Now where best to get some more light bulbs ?.......

 

[ntpntpntp]

The 24266 instructions specifically say you have to enter two digit CV numbers (eg. 02) when programming by Register for CVs 1 - 5 with the Universal remote. The English instructions are poor (it mentions "CV" when referring to programming by Register), and doesn't give a process for programming by CV at all (it goes on to programming by Pages). The German instructions don't seem to give the process for programming by CV either. This is all horrible unfriendly stuff, you'll be much better off with the SPROG.

I'm betting on the 24266 instructions being wrong (and the general Marklin decoder notes correct) with regard to the defaults, and the decoder reset has set CV 113 to 255 (and similarly for the equivalent "dim" CVs for the other functions).

All should become clear when you get your SPROG. It will be interesting to see whether there is a specific decoder template for the LGB/Marklin decoder in the JMRI DecoderPro software - if not then it may identify the decoder as one of the smaller scale Marklin decoders: This shouldn't be a problem if they all use the same basic firmware and CV mappings as per those "general notes" I keep referring to.


If it turns out I'm right, and a decoder reset causes full voltage at lighting outputs but the lighting expects 5V then Marklin have done a very stupid thing, made a bad design decision, and they should be prepared for customer complaints. It's perfectly reasonable that a customer may force a decoder reset, and that shouldn't then cause lights to blow. Either they need to change the firmware for the large scale decoder in this loco so that the default for CV113 (and the like) is more like 50, or they should have built voltage regulation onto the main board. Goes right back to my first comment in this thread that relying on the decoder to control function voltage is a bad idea! However, this is getting ahead of things: let's see what the SPROG reveals?

 

[Beddhist]

Rather than buying more bulbs, why not take this opportunity and replace them with LEDs and resistors. As a bonus, you will be safe in case of another reset.

 

[PhilP]

Rather than buying more bulbs, why not take this opportunity and replace them with LEDs and resistors. As a bonus, you will be safe in case of another reset.

Or replace with 24V bulbs..