Problems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

[supagav]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if anyone can help me? I'm having a few problems with our new Massoth Wireless Feedback module.

We recently installed a wireless feedback module (with wireless upgrade board) & train detection unit to control some LGB EPL style signals on our railway. After a few teething problems I managed to get it all working and since then it has been great! The presence of a train in a specific block closes two signals to red to prevent any other trains entering the area.

I ran some trains this morning and all was good, but when I powered up the railway this afternoon I found the feedback module has stopped working. I haven't changed any settings or altered anything and I just can't figure out what is going on. Trains are running through the block so the modules are powered up and a quick check with a multimeter on the terminals confirms this. I took the feedback module back on to the work bench to test it and I can successfully program and read CVs so the unit itself seems in good working order. It's almost like somehow it has lost connection with the central station? It has me stumped...

I've also tried reseting all the Automatic Functions on the 1200z and then re-activate them on the handset but no luck. I also tried Save Automatic Functions on 1200z but still no joy.

If anyone has any tips or ideas I would be extremely grateful! Many thanks for your help!

 

[beavercreek]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Hi Gav
I do not know if this is the solution to your conundrum but...

I use X10 mains born home automation. Signal is transmitted through the mains to the modules which then turn on or off lights, appliances etc etc. Well the originating signal is wireless and comes from a wall switch and then goes to a transceiver plugged into the mains and this then sends signals through the mains to the module which matches the wall switch code....
Well when I was first using my Massoth 1200Z and the wireless navigator I noticed that the X10 wall switches were not being able to connect to the mains plugged in transceivers. I did not at first put the two events together but then after a process of elimination I discovered that the Navigator/1200Z wireless frequency was 'swamping' the whole house and interfering with the X10 transmissions.

perhaps the opposite is happening with you and some 2.4GHZ transmission is interfering with the feedback module wireless. Even if it is not one in your house, maybe it is a neighbour?
2.4GHZ is the frequency band that radio phones, wireless routers etc, work on.

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Hmmmm... I didn't think of that Mike, thanks! Wireless routers? We have a PC in our train shed with a wireless access point that connects to the main router in the house through the ring main... Could be that? I'll try switching off all of our Internet gear and see if that makes a difference.

Just out of interest what did you do in the end? Did you change the channel on the massoth receiver?

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it!

 

[beavercreek]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Hmmmm... I didn't think of that Mike, thanks! Wireless routers? We have a PC in our train shed with a wireless access point that connects to the main router in the house through the ring main... Could be that? I'll try switching off all of our Internet gear and see if that makes a difference.

Just out of interest what did you do in the end? Did you change the channel on the massoth receiver?

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it!

Hi Gav
It will be the wireless operation of routers etc that may be interfering. The mains borne signal shouldn't cause a problem but there again the 1200Z might pick it up....
Well I have meant to change the wireless 1200z/navigator receiver frequency but have not got around to it! So I just know that I can't use the X10 while the Massoth is running....... Your thread has reminded me to see to it....tomorrow.......mañana maãna

 

[Cliff George]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Hmmmm... I didn't think of that Mike, thanks! Wireless routers? We have a PC in our train shed with a wireless access point that connects to the main router in the house through the ring main... Could be that?

I doubt it.

While both the Massoth stuff and X10 use the 433 MHz frequency band and so could interfere with each other, most Wi-Fi uses the 2.4GHz band.

If you have wireless Navigators are they still working? If so there is nothing wrong with the receive path and no interference.

 

[beavercreek]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

I doubt it.

While both the Massoth stuff and X10 use the 433 MHz frequency band and so could interfere with each other, most Wi-Fi uses the 2.4GHz band.

If you have wireless Navigators are they still working? If so there is nothing wrong with the receive path and no interference.

You may doubt it Cliff but if you pop over I will happily demonstrate it to you. In fact It first occurred on one of open days last year and there were witnesses to it!
Also
it was only the other night when I was running some late evening trains and Lorraine could not use the X10 wireless wallswitch to turn on the X10 plug that controls the TV/BluRay, hometheatre system until I turned off the Massoth 1200z/wireless......
QED

 

[Cliff George]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Sorry if I wasn't clear, what I was trying to say is that I doubt that Wi-Fi in a wireless router will interfere with Massoth wireless operation. Massoth wireless works on 433 MHz while the Wi-Fi works on 2.4GHz so no interference.

I have no doubt that X10 and Massoth wireless can interfere with each other since they both work in the same 433 MHz band.

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Thanks again guys. I'm no expert here but it did seem to help. I changed the frequency and all seems to be good so far. Touch wood! I really don't know to be honest. In the massoth receiver manual it also mentions that wireless keyboards and mice might affect it too and funnily enough the old PC in the train shed has a wireless mouse and keyboard setup. As well as a change of frequency I tried switching off the wireless access point as well as the computer and it made a really big difference. It works great now. I'm still not sure so I think it will need further investigation!

Thanks again for your help folks, I appreciate the input.

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Just as a quick aside, here are a few youtube videos showing it all in action:

http://youtu.be/c3eBcp0LEa4

http://youtu.be/sQ8duEmZwKM

http://youtu.be/wtCr_iSwYrw

The last video shows the grade crossing that I mentioned in another post. It's not run off the block detection, just from small push-to-make sensors in the track, but as it is in the same area of the railway I thought I'd put in too:

http://youtu.be/VfYL0KaDUd8

 

[beavercreek]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Glad you got it sorted Gav
Nice signal arrangement. I am thinking of something similar for my layout using feedback module with wireless daughter card. I may be picking your brain sometime soon...

......also good beefy sound from the Geep!

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Thanks for the compliment Mike! I'm still experimenting with the system myself but I'd be more than happy to share my findings!

As we're geared up for operations, I'm not so interested in automatic running, it's more the prototypical block detection that I'm trying to re-create. I've been doing a lot of thinking and reading as to how it's done across the pond so please feel free to ask away!

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

55.5: again I'm not expert here but I have recently been having some strange issues with my wireless massoth stuff but this does seem to have cured the problem.

 

[supagav]

Reroblems with Feedback & Train Detection Module

Just another quick thought to add in to the equation...

Could amateur radio Hamm use 433Mhz, or at least something close enough to cause interference with the massoth wireless? I suddenly remembered that our neighbour across the street is an avid radio Hamm user and I just wondered if that could be competing with with my wireless dimax signal? I read on a US help forum that some Hamm signals can interfere with home automation products and other things like garage door openers etc?

Again I'm no expert so if anyone has any ideas I'd really appreciate the input! Thanks again.