Problem accessing Massoth S Decoder via Massoth PC Module

Ralphmp

Ralphmp

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I recently invested in the Massoth PC Module as I am planning to install / upgrade more appropriate sound files in my locos which use Massoth decoders.

My first attempt has been to try and put down the Stainz soundfile onto a new eMOTION S decoder and after several hours I'm stumped.

I have loaded the DCC Programmer software (I used the latest version downloaded from the Massoth web site, not the version on the CD that came with the PC Module) and this recognises the PC Module OK; it tells me that it's version 3.1. I've then tried connecting the S decoder both via the high-speed update (SUSI) and programming track connections (it's not in a loco at present) but every time I try and read either all the CVs or a single CV I just get "Error: Read Error" messages.

The manual with the decoder tells me if I have a 2013 board I don't need to plug a loudspeaker into it as a programming "load" - the board has a flashing LED. However, as I can't see any LEDs I'm assuming I have a "pre-LED" decoder. So I hooked up a speaker and when I try and read CVs I get some noise out of the speaker which coincides with each attempt to read data from the decoder. I'm therefore assuming I have connectivity between PC Module, decoder, and PC.

I saw that PhilP recently had some issues with programming S decoder soundfiles but he could read / write CVs so I'm guessing I have a more fundamental problem.

Any suggestions, hints, tips, etc. would me most welcome.

Thanks
 
Quick update - I can read the decoder data OK with my SPROG (and there is a flashing LED after all :-) ) - so maybe it's the PC Module that's the issue?
 
If you have used the DCC programmer software, then you have to close the interface in that software before you can use the debugger utility to upload the soundfile. - This seems to be a major stumbling block.. I found I sometimes had to go back into the programmer s/ware and open/close the interface again before the firmware update would 'take'.
PhilP
 
Once you think all is well, I would run the decoder for a few hours 'on the bench'..
There are reports of the new decoders running quite warm. - I was worried about them getting so hot the adhesive would soften on the sticky-pads and the decoder would end up 'floating' in the loco.
Have heard rumours of some decoders failing after running for a number of hours, hence suggestion you run it for some time and see how hot it gets.
 
Thanks for the tip but I'm afraid you've lost me :(
I don't understand about the debugger. I thought I had to use the firmware update programme to download the sound file?
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Also, although I can read and programme switch decoders with the PC module I still can't get it to recognize the S decoder at all, so I'm obviously doing something wrong still.
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You are using the correct software to upload sounds - the DiMax Service Tool (Update Utility). ~The latest version is available from the Massoth download center.

Have you released the decoder programming lock? To release it CV15 needs to be se to the same value as CV16. Unless you have changed CV16, this value is by default 145.
Use the DCC programmer software, open the interface, select new from the Decoder menu, click ok (no need to select a decoder type at this point) and use the "Single CV" entry to set CV15 to a value of 145. Write the CV value to the decoder. Then you should be able to "detect" the decoder as normal.
 
Hi Mark

Thanks for the tip. See below for status

Here's where I'm at

1. Connected PC Module up and tried to read emotion s chip - failed, read errors
2. Connected PC Module up and successfully read and reprogrammed a single channel point decoder (LGB model)
3. Connected PC Module up and tried to read chip data from a loco (lots of errors although loco jumped about a lot - not the usual "twitch" I get with my SPROG, but the wheels to one of the motor blocks actually turned)
4. Connected SPROG and tried to read emotion s chip - partial success, but I think the decoder map I was using is a bit off
5. Connected SPROG and read CVs 15 and 16, and set CV 15 to 145; re-read CVs to confirm both have 145
6. Reconnected PC module and tried to read emotion s chip - failed as before, read errors

(I didn't connect a speaker to the chip this time as it has a flashy-LED so according to the manual I don't need and inductive load to do programming; I have previously hooked up a speaker but still got read errors)

I've tried changing the USB cable to the PC but that made no difference.

So it would appear the PC module works OK as it programs a switch decoder and the chip is OK as it can be accessed by the SPROG. Therefore (dangerous word!) it looks like I'm being dumber than usual.

Couple of things occur to me. First, I'm using my 1200z to power the PC Module as that seems to meet the 16V - 24V, at least 2 amps requirement the manual tells me the module needs. Is this correct or do I need an alternative power supply?
Second, will the emotion s decoder be "accessible" without it being hooked up to a driving decoder?

As always, any suggestions will be gratefully received.
 
It's been a while but I'm now ready to throw in the towel with the Massoth PC Module

There has been some progress - following some helpful advice from Peter at Massoth (find an alternative power supply to the one I'd been using), I can now mostly read / write to decoders OK and I can even update the firmware in the PC Module itself (a new version was issued recently btw). However, when I try and download firmware or sound files to a decoder I'm still stuck at the same stage as lots of other folk - I get either time-out errors or "your decoder is not attached" issues.

I've tried all the suggestions I can find, and several of you have been kind enough to offer some tips which I have also tried, but trying to get the Service Tool program to recognise anything attached to the PC Module is a complete failure. So I'm left with the situation where all the PC Module is giving me is another way of reading / writing CVs, something I could already do OK via my 1200Z or via my SPROG.

Based on the number of people who have reported this issue, it would appear that either the module only works in a specific configuration of PC type, OS version and decoder hook-up mode which I've yet to discover, or it's actually faulty (physically or the firmware has errors).

I know nobody's perfect, but I think it's poor that Massoth don't either warn folk that there are issues when using the PC Module to update firmware / upload sound files, or at least make available precise details of the specific configurations they use to get the module to work in this mode; e.g.

What power supply
Whether they use USB or serial interface
Details of the PC OS version they use (XP, Vista, Windows 7, etc.)
How they connect the decoder to the PC module - directly, in a loco on a programming track, etc.

(Perhaps I'm being unfair and they have done this already on the German section of their web site; unfortunately, I'm not fluent so I can't check)

So, unless someone can come up with a "magic feather" or some "oooffle dust" to sprinkle on the device, then I will most probably get rid of it as I can do what CV reading/writing I need to do in other ways.

Now all I have to do is find someone who CAN get sound files onto a Massoth XLS decoder and who would upload a file for me; any offers?

Best wishes
Phil

PS - For info, reading /writing CV data to the eMOTION S only proved possible for me once I'd hooked it up to a main decoder board and set the relevant CV on the decoder to say I was using the SUSI interface; may be helpful for some of you
 
I would be happy to help Phil, PM me
 
I'm thinking there is something simple in the equation that is missing...
Something I do now that has helped a lot with my trials and tribulations with Windows 7 is that just before running the Dimax update software I run the device manager to see which port the USB adaptor from the programming module is actually connected to. Then I know which one to choose in the Dimax utility window when it comes up. Having the right port selected has fixed most of the troubles I have had. Don't give up on it yet!

Keith
 
Thanks guys.

Mark - will PM you tomorrow.

Keith - I did wonder if it's more of a PC issue. I've been using the module with an old laptop running Vista and my next thing was to try my work laptop which runs Windows 7; and if that doesn't fix it then my "last" resort will be to see if the programme runs on my Macbook under Parallels Windows emulator ;)
I'll keep you posted.

Cheers
Phil
 
Phil,
Going back to basics..
I am presuming the PC Module and S decoder are both new?
There have been some reported issues with the new (flashy led) S decoders. - They tend to run hot, and if left in the sun (when we have some) in an engine for a few hours can fail..
Both units being 'new' one or more could be faulty/damaged.
Also, not all USB cables are created equal. - Are you using the cable supplied with the PC Module?
I do know of someone who had a brand-new PC Module which was faulty..

We need to swap out each component part really.
Is there anyone in your part of the country with similar kit? - Two heads better than one, and you can try to read/program the decoder on their equipment.

Is there a friendly dealer anywhere near you? - Or from whom did you get the Module and Decoder?
You should be able to go back to them.

Failing the above, if you wanted to send them to me, I will swap/test with my PC Module etc.

PhilP
 
Hi PhilP

I think you must be right as there were a few posts a while ago on GSC and the Massoth forum about the same problem I've been having, but they all seemed to stop about the same time so I'm hoping there's a known cure.

In the hope you can spot a flaw in what I've been doing, here's the story so far.

I bought 2 S boards, 1 XLS decoder and the PC Module from GRS recently (I got a discount as I was attending a Massoth session they were running which is why I bought there rather than via Muns). The XLS is going into a Mallet which had no sound and 2 LGB 55020 decoders, one of the S boards is in a Stainz where I've added a Massoth small loco decoder (bought from Muns; works a treat
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) and the other is to go into another LGB loco with DCC but no sound.

As I already have a SPROG, my primary reason for buying the PC Module was so I could download sound files - the XLS is "blank" and I wanted to use the Stainz-specific sounds on an S rather than the generic small steam loco ones it came with.

As mentioned in earlier posts, I had no luck initially in getting the PC module to even recognize any decoder, let alone upload soundfiles. I tried connecting the S boards via the SUSI high-speed cable as recommended in the manual, I tried the more conventional 2-wire connection and I tried both methods with and without a speaker attached. I also tried connecting the board to the decoder in the Stainz (again via SUSI and via 2-wire method). In none of these cases did I have any luck and the LED on the S board didn't flicker once.

I then connected the S boards to my Sprog which read/wrote CV data to both of them OK - no speaker attached, LED flickering brightly when the SPROG communicated with the the boards.

I then dropped Peter a mail at Massoth and he suggested using a different power supply from the one I had been to date. I followed his advice and I can now read/write CVs on all 3 new decoders and I can also communicate with the decoder in the Stainz. However, still no luck with the sound file updates - hence my rather ill-considered rant the other evening.
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As the XLS drives the Mallet ok and gives out the number in German for each sound function key, I'm assuming it's working ok. I've hooked both of the S boards up to the Stainz, and both produce steam loco sounds in line with the documentation that came with them. So again, I'm assuming they work OK. And as the PC Module now reads/writes CVs, and it also took a firmware update OK, it's clearly not a "dead stick".

I've also tried shortening the wires to the decoder(s) from the PC Module when I've used a direct connection (rather than rely on getting contact via the loco wheels / skates on my programming track) but, again, I can do CV read/write but the service tool still fails to find any of the decoders.

As I'm writing this, I'm wondering if this is still a power supply issue? The one I'm using now has a bit more "oomph" so I can read/write CVs, perhaps though it's still not chunky enough to do soundfile/firmware updates?

Sorry about the lengthy post. Hope it makes sense, and any thoughts you have would be most welcome
 
No problem with length of post..

I tend to get confused with 'which serial port' the USB thinks it is.
So, I tend to read the decoder first using the programmer.
Then, you must close the port in that piece of software. - I am using Winders 7 Prof. but should be the same for Vista (shudder, don't like Vista much).
Fire up the Massoth Service Tool (mine is version 1.3 and seems to work fine with the new cards), select your soundfile.
NOTE:
Each 'model' of decoder has a separate directory (folder) of soundfiles.. I did try to load an XLS soundfile to a S decoder and it did not work.
As an aside;
I have the Service Tool and soundfiles stored on my hard-drive. I would suggest that you download the latest version(s) of the soundfiles you want from the Massoth site and store them locally.
Select the Com port number the USB is using, and you should be good to go..

I tend to program the decoders out of the loco. So just two wires from the Prog Track connections to track +/- on the decoder.. speaker and Pot (though it never seems to get it right about the Pot) on older S and XLS.. A motor as a load on XLS and other loco decoders.
I personally use a DCC Supplies 15V AC 75Watt transformer, as that is what I happen to have.. I have used a bench power supply, which can supply 2-3Amps maximum as well.

The Service Tool software has to think about it for a few seconds before the load starts, and it can take (up to) 40 minutes to load a soundfile..

I then go back to the Programmer software, and have to read the decoder before I can 'see' the soundfile parameters in the Programmer software app.

**Mark, please jump in if I have made an glaring errors in this please.**
PhilP.
 
I'm hot jumping anywhere!

S decoders are a right pain in the backside (Peter even admitted this to me).

I have also had issues with the USB version of the programmer and tend to use my old serial one. I must try the USB one with my 50110 transformer and see if that helps.

I also find it helpful to reset the programming module (off/on) when switching between the DCC programmer & the service Tool.
 
muns said:
I'm hot jumping anywhere!
~~~
Must be one of the new s decoders then! :@

S decoders are a right pain in the backside (Peter even admitted this to me).
Look before you sit down?

I have also had issues with the USB version of the programmer and tend to use my old serial one. I must try the USB one with my 50110 transformer and see if that helps.
Newbie at this, so only ever had the USB version.

I also find it helpful to reset the programming module (off/on) when switching between the DCC programmer & the service Tool.
Not thought of trying that.. Knowing my luck it would grab a different virtual COM port..
Click to expand...
 
Tried a few more things tonight:

1. Loaded up the service tool & DCC Programmer on a Windows 7 laptop - same results (CV read/write OK, service tool doesn't "see" the decoder) BUT I did notice a faint hum from the speaker when accessing the decoder both via the DCC Programmer and the service tool so I'm assuming connectivity between PC Module and decoder is OK
2. Reset the decoder to factory values - no change in results
3. Tried to upload the latest XLS firmware instead of a sound file - no change
4. Tried leaving the PC Module off for a couple of minutes after doing CV read/write before trying the service tool - no change
5. Tried reversing the wires from PC Module to decoder (i.e. moving the one that went to Track+ to Track- and vice versa) - no change
6. Revisited the Massoth forum to make sure I've tried all of the suggestions given to other people with this problem - I had

I guess I could also try another power supply (I'm using my old LGB 50110 at the moment) but I'll have to try and borrow one from somewhere as I don't have one at home.

One thing that did occur to me tonight is that the soundfile I'm trying to load appears to be designed for XLS firmware version 2.1, but the decoder already has 2.7 installed. Now I know from work that firmware can be a bit of a bu**er, and that people who write it often have checks built in to their update procedures which stop you overwriting what's in place with earlier versions as this can be quite entertaining. If Massoth are following this practice it may be that the issue here is (i) the update tool thinks it's actually laying down firmware rather than a sound file, and (ii) it's not happy putting down an earlier version than the one that is currently installed. Unlikely, I now, but maybe worth me asking the question of Massoth.

Oh well, time for bed and maybe I'll have a "Eureka" moment in the middle of the night. (Mark - if not, I'll be popping the XLS in the post at the weekend and hoping you can weave your magic spell with it
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Phil I'm wondering if it's still not a port issue. Before you quit the programming software next time, make sure you close the interface using the menu. Also, at that point I would even unplug your usb cable from your laptop, move it to a different usb port, then using the Windows device manager confirm which port you've got it plugged into. Then make sure that's the same port you're using when you configure the Dimax update utility program.

Keith
 
FYI...don't worry about the service tool reporting older firmware versions when attempting to load a sound file - that was the firmware version when the sound file was created....the firmware in the decoder does not change only the sounds.
 
This thread really has pricked my attention. I am at the moment of purchasing several sound decoders plus a programmer. A friend has the serial programmer and has not had an issue with it. He rewrites decoders several times over with new sound files or updates.

As the USB version is the current (and only model available) then I am now apprehensive as to committing to any sound decoder purchases. Unless the programmer is reliable then I am not interested in sound decoders, period.

Non-sound decoders are fine as I have my trusty old LGB programmer to sort them out. Hopefully a fix will be found soon, very, very soon.
 
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