Power Supply

[duncan1_9_8_4]

I have for many years had a garden railway now. I have only ever fed the power into the track at one point. Over the years, the circuit has got bigger, I have 3 turning circles fed directly from the track, from various locations. Along with 4 Massoth point decoders at various locations fed from the track also.

Getting to the point, I am thinking of feeding power into the track at other locations, such as the furthest point from the CS3, unlike now. Maybe feeding power in at an additional 4 locations.

Is this a worthwhile exercise?
Would it improve the reliability of the point decoders responding?

All the track has railclamps rather than original fishplates.....

I hate boring jobs, but the electrical side has always took a back seat, so I'm wanting to improve it.

Also, if I do, I am going to solder to the rail. Is solder weather proof?

Cheers

Paul

 

[ebay mike]

Although my track used clamps throughout I still had the odd instance where power was either interrupted or reduced in a couple of locations which may have been due to flexing of the rails due to hot weather. I cured this by using PVC covered mains lighting cable to take power to additional locations to ensure a more reliable supply. I didn't solder anything to the track - merely inserted the bare copper ends into the rail clamps and retightened. Cable isn't particularly cheap but I managed to pick up a full 50m roll of obsolete coloured stuff on the car boot for £4.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Yeah there's just a few locations, one of which I power a point module from that the points become slow to respond when a Locomotive is in the same area.

 

[ebay mike]

Here's what I did. Perhaps a little over the top, but it did cure a multitude of sins. Layout was wired as four independent isolated circuits (for analogue DC), but with the flick of a multipole switch could convert to DCC as either separate tracks, selectable DCC track combinations or a single whole layout DCC job. The electrical side was a bit of a nightmare to set up initially. I used 6 x 50110 5a transformers, 4 x 51079 5a controllers, 4 x 55005p MTS2 central stations and 6 x 55016p handsets. BUT IT WORKED.
EDIT 20/10/23 As it stands this post doesn't really make sense. When I uploaded it I included a diagram to support the narrative. Lord knows where it went but it certainly wasn't here. Anyway for what it's worth I've added it below:

 

[Paul M]

The more track power points the better, although if your line has been working for years with just one, it obviously isn't always necessary

 

[dunnyrail]

My suggestion and it worked well for me on my large line during track power days was to create sections. You have shown supply lines, make these proper sections with a split using Massoth Isolating Clamps. Then run a wire to the extreme end of each section, at the end of this create a loop for the track clamp screw to fit through. Then solder the loop, not with the screw in! Now create another length of wire with a loop each end and run that to the other end of the section. You can then use the track clamps to secure the wire loops to your track, some LGB Graphite pase would be a good idea to apply to the loops after you have cleaned off any residue of flux.

Yes you will have separate sections fed almost next to each other but feeding the sections from each end is a good way of ensuring power to the line.

Finally in my case I made each section switchable, on a big line helps if you have an unexpected short. You turn off all the switches then re-power the line, as you turn each section on the short location section will make itself apparent.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

T

My suggestion and it worked well for me on my large line during track power days was to create sections. You have shown supply lines, make these proper sections with a split using Massoth Isolating Clamps. Then run a wire to the extreme end of each section, at the end of this create a loop for the track clamp screw to fit through. Then solder the loop, not with the screw in! Now create another length of wire with a loop each end and run that to the other end of the section. You can then use the track clamps to secure the wire loops to your track, some LGB Graphite pase would be a good idea to apply to the loops after you have cleaned off any residue of flux.

Yes you will have separate sections fed almost next to each other but feeding the sections from each end is a good way of ensuring power to the line.

Finally in my case I made each section switchable, on a big line helps if you have an unexpected short. You turn off all the switches then re-power the line, as you turn each section on the short location section will make itself apparent.

Thanks, the time has come to show some interest on the power supply front. I like this idea of sections .

 

[viaEstrecha]

T

Thanks, the time has come to show some interest on the power supply front. I like this idea of sections .

My railway (when under track power) has eight sections plus several isolating sidings. I used DPDT (centre off) switches for the sections, to allow each one to connect to either one of two main controllers, which gives a form of very basic yet effective cab control and lets you run a couple of locos at a time, without any posh RC/DCC electronics business. A certain level of mental gymnastics does come into play on occasions.

 

[korm kormsen]

hmmm... i always was using household cables as feeders (could not get fine cables down here)

but i always doubted if that was necessary. even with fishplates (plus distributor contact-oil) the rails were/are the thickest "wires" i had/have.

 

[curtis]

hmmm... i always was using household cables as feeders (could not get fine cables down here)

but i always doubted if that was necessary. even with fishplates (plus distributor contact-oil) the rails were/are the thickest "wires" i had/have.

I always assumed the problem wasn't the 'wire gauge' of the rails themselves but the many individual connections. I guess those are the points of failure (x2 given you've got to go out and back from the source to the loco). Fishplates or rail-clamps are all points of weakness

Paul, for ours we currently have 6 points of connection from a bus wire that goes around most of the garden (2 of them are technically parts of the reverse loops). There was advice on this forum a while ago (I struggled to find it) about ensuring that each section is isolated from the other for trouble shooting purposes. This means, that if a train stops in a section - you know the issue is somewhere between the feed into the track in that section and where the loco stopped. If you have no isolation, power from a feed further along may mask the issue. Initially I was more inclined for the redundancy but decided to follow the wisdom of this community and was happy I did. It has made it extremely easy to identify problems on the handful of occasions we had them. Just my 2p on the topic!

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

I always assumed the problem wasn't the 'wire gauge' of the rails themselves but the many individual connections. I guess those are the points of failure (x2 given you've got to go out and back from the source to the loco). Fishplates or rail-clamps are all points of weakness

Paul, for ours we currently have 6 points of connection from a bus wire that goes around most of the garden (2 of them are technically parts of the reverse loops). There was advice on this forum a while ago (I struggled to find it) about ensuring that each section is isolated from the other for trouble shooting purposes. This means, that if a train stops in a section - you know the issue is somewhere between the feed into the track in that section and where the loco stopped. If you have no isolation, power from a feed further along may mask the issue. Initially I was more inclined for the redundancy but decided to follow the wisdom of this community and was happy I did. It has made it extremely easy to identify problems on the handful of occasions we had them. Just my 2p on the topic!

Thanks for that Curtis. Sounds like this is the way to go. My line uses rail clamps in its entirety, but still, when a Locomotive is at the furthest point away from the power IN, it often causes one of my Reverse Loop modules to click randomly until the locomotive gets closer to the power IN again. So hoping this could help. Weirdly it's only when it's a loco with a olders style DCC decoder in it. Anything MFX is fine.

 

[Paul M]

hmmm... i always was using household cables as feeders (could not get fine cables down here)

but i always doubted if that was necessary. even with fishplates (plus distributor contact-oil) the rails were/are the thickest "wires" i had/have.

They probably are, and as Duncan says in his first post, his railway has been fine. The problem starts when, or if, things start to move and the joints open up, or dirt gets into the joint area. Having more than one feed may help with voltage drop, which can affect the running of large trains

 

[Dan]

One thing to remember with multiple wires when running DCC to the rails. This is a square wave signal and sometimes an extension wire placed wrong can be unevenly get timed with the source due to different wire lengths.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

One thing to remember with multiple wires when running DCC to the rails. This is a square wave signal and sometimes an extension wire placed wrong can be unevenly get timed with the source due to different wire lengths.

Woah, that's above my cleverness level....

 

[Paul M]

One thing to remember with multiple wires when running DCC to the rails. This is a square wave signal and sometimes an extension wire placed wrong can be unevenly get timed with the source due to different wire lengths.

DCC seems to be getting more complicated as time goes on.

 

[dunnyrail]

One thing to remember with multiple wires when running DCC to the rails. This is a square wave signal and sometimes an extension wire placed wrong can be unevenly get timed with the source due to different wire lengths.

Never occurred on my line during track power days and I had lengths of wire going to the same section getting on for 40feet different in length.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Never occurred on my line during track power days and I had lengths of wire going to the same section getting on for 40feet different in length.

That's reasuring