Power points lights

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Greyfox

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Dear all .i have a LGB control box that I use to power my points via transformer dc power,But I now have a massoth dimax system and I know I need to run two wires to track from control system ,but how do I get power to points and lights on track and in carriages thanks Paul
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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13 Jul 2015
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You can still use track power from the wheels to drive carriage lights with DCC as with DC. In my simple brain DCC combines power and control signals in the track voltage, so you can still use the power bit without deciphering the control signals bit. If you want to get sophisticated you can pickup power from the carriage wheels to power an accessory decoder, then you can switch the lights on and off under DCC control. Massoth do carriage light strips with a built-in decoder not too expensively.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Just remember that if you have older Carriages the Lights May blow on DCC. The newer bulbs are OK at DCC Track Voltage I believe.

As for your Points you can run them through DCC but you will need an LGB Accessory Decoder 55025. This will run up to 4 Points, but setting them up is a bit of a Dark Art. There is a thread about these somewhere in the Forum.
 
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Greyfox

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Thanks very much
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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To paraphrase Jon a bit, the DCC is a boon and a bane when converting from "analog DC".

Quite often the lamps in DC locos are 18v rated or so, which is fine, as the track voltage is varied to control the speed, and 18v volts is pretty rare, trains will usually run at way too high a speed.

Now, DCC has a constant voltage on the track, so now, the norm in G scale is 24v (this is to ensure all locos can hit top speed if necessary)... but it is 24v ALL THE TIME,

So your 18v bulbs will probably burn out if there is no accommodation for the constant higher voltage.

To make it a bit trickier, this is actually AC on the rails. Incandescent bulbs do not care (like the common light bulbs in your house), but LEDs want DC not AC, so usually you put a full wave bridge rectifier to lights connected to the rails on DCC. LEDs also need appropriate "current limiting resistors" to basically control the current so they do not burn out.

If you are using a decoder, then there are more accommodations for LEDs and the appropriate voltages/currents.

The bottom line is check the situation carefully before putting a lighted "DC" car on DCC power.

Greg
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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13 Jul 2015
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Good points Greg. I keep forgetting I run my DCC at quite low voltage (19v into the command centre) so no problem with standard LGB incandescent bulbs powered off the track.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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That is a good solution if you can do it. In my case, I run 1:29 and Aristo 3 axle diesel motorblocks are very geared down. 20 volts only yielded 62.5 scale miles per hour. Not even fast enough for freights, and very no good for passengers.

They don't always run full prototype speed, but I try to have all my trains set up to achieve full prototype speed (I have no "bullet trains" haha). Another plus is if I go to any other DCC layout, the chances are pretty much zero that they will be OVER 24 volts.

But I would be doing things at a lower voltage if I had narrow gauge for example.

Greg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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Hm interesting re Carriages, I and Andy Rush had between us 4 of the LGB Pullmans. They were as new and the Lights ran fine on DCC Current (no Coach DCC Gubbins) as picked up from the Rails. Without delving through mountains of Catalogues I cannot quote the ref numbers, but 2 of my Brown ones were from the Brown Mallett Set in the big wood box plus a Golden Arrow one (which I still have). Andrews one was the MOB one. All mostly I believe pre dating MTS (DCC) but having the higher rated Bulbs.
 
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Dan

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28 Jan 2010
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Eastern MA
I bought a reel of led light strips that are 12 volts. I tied them in series for 24 volts and get great light. The reel of 50 light strips was $15.00 US. I did use a full wave bridge and a 220uf capacitor for anti flickering.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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I did the same on my Aristo passenger cars.

Not all locomotives in the world are LGB with 24v bulbs, many other trains use lower voltage bulbs for headlights and other things that need to be bright, like marker lamps.

I have watched my Aristo marker lights on locos and cabooses slowly go away under 24 volts.

Greg
 
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G

Greyfox

Registered
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Farnham
To paraphrase Jon a bit, the DCC is a boon and a bane when converting from "analog DC".

Quite often the lamps in DC locos are 18v rated or so, which is fine, as the track voltage is varied to control the speed, and 18v volts is pretty rare, trains will usually run at way too high a speed.

Now, DCC has a constant voltage on the track, so now, the norm in G scale is 24v (this is to ensure all locos can hit top speed if necessary)... but it is 24v ALL THE TIME,

So your 18v bulbs will probably burn out if there is no accommodation for the constant higher voltage.

To make it a bit trickier, this is actually AC on the rails. Incandescent bulbs do not care (like the common light bulbs in your house), but LEDs want DC not AC, so usually you put a full wave bridge rectifier to lights connected to the rails on DCC. LEDs also need appropriate "current limiting resistors" to basically control the current so they do not burn out.

If you are using a decoder, then there are more accommodations for LEDs and the appropriate voltages/currents.

The bottom line is check the situation carefully before putting a lighted "DC" car on DCC power.

Greg
hi have only just got into massoth so there is a great big learning curve ,but what I noticed is that the navigator when slowing down and deciding to change direction navigator seems very slow to react as in transformer type of control is instant massoth is very slow and also stop button is sometimes not even working ,but the right hand stop works ok to shut whole system off ,to move train with navigator is very slow from start and when turning dial you get to halfway and train is only just trying to speed up .is there something I can change to speed up this action thanks Paul

REPLY
REPORT EDIT
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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New issue...

This "slow" is probably a setting for momentum in the loco, or the controller or both.

There are reasons to not have immediate starting and stopping, your trains and their geartrains will last longer.

For the acceleration and deceleration in the loco itself, it is CV3 and CV4, you might want a primer on the typical CV's to change....

On the Massoth control system itself, I'm sure someone here knows. I use Zimo.

Greg
 
Alpineandy

Alpineandy

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25 Oct 2009
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Alpennines
hi have only just got into massoth so there is a great big learning curve ,but what I noticed is that the navigator when slowing down and deciding to change direction navigator seems very slow to react as in transformer type of control is instant massoth is very slow and also stop button is sometimes not even working ,but the right hand stop works ok to shut whole system off ,to move train with navigator is very slow from start and when turning dial you get to halfway and train is only just trying to speed up .is there something I can change to speed up this action thanks Paul

REPLY
REPORT EDIT
Hi
each loco decoder can be set to give the loco different characteristics by the programming of decoder, you can alter for example:- top speed, acceleration, deceleration, braking etc.
This will depend usually upon which decoder is in your loco.
I would say the first thing you need to learn is how to set the address of the decoder and how to set the speed steps.
As you say its a big learning curve.
There are members of this forum who are far more knowledgable than I on this subject so i won,t say anymore. :)
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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13 Jul 2015
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If you are able to read CV numbers then if you can tell us what the values of CV1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are we can probably tell you if they are the cause of the slowness to react. Maybe CV 29 as well.
 
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John S

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Last edited:
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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8.2 Emergency STOP Mode

Select this option in order to configure the Emergency STOP mode depending on whether you are left or right handed. Left or Right select the key to trigger the Emergency STOP. The other STOP key will release the Emergency STOP after it has been triggered. The Reset option features sending RESET commands on the main track while power is on. All decoders will stop but track power will remain on. The Massoth system also supports stopping decoders with connected power buffers when triggering an Emergency STOP.

IMPORTANT NOTE For example: If you select the option RIGHT, the Emergency STOP is triggered with the right STOP-key. Both STOP keys will flash. Track power will be shut off immediately. The LEFT key will release the Emergency STOP. If you select RIGHT + RESET, you may additionally trigger the RESET command with the LEFT key. IF a RESET is triggered both STOP keys will light constantly. All decoders will immediately stop although track power will remain. With the LEFT key the RESET may be released. If a RESET is triggered the Emergency STOP may still be triggered with the defined key. It is important to know that some older decoders may not be compatible with the RESET command which will then result in a decoder that will not stop while the RESET has been triggered.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
8.2 Emergency STOP Mode

Select this option in order to configure the Emergency STOP mode depending on whether you are left or right handed. Left or Right select the key to trigger the Emergency STOP. The other STOP key will release the Emergency STOP after it has been triggered. The Reset option features sending RESET commands on the main track while power is on. All decoders will stop but track power will remain on. The Massoth system also supports stopping decoders with connected power buffers when triggering an Emergency STOP.

IMPORTANT NOTE For example: If you select the option RIGHT, the Emergency STOP is triggered with the right STOP-key. Both STOP keys will flash. Track power will be shut off immediately. The LEFT key will release the Emergency STOP. If you select RIGHT + RESET, you may additionally trigger the RESET command with the LEFT key. IF a RESET is triggered both STOP keys will light constantly. All decoders will immediately stop although track power will remain. With the LEFT key the RESET may be released. If a RESET is triggered the Emergency STOP may still be triggered with the defined key. It is important to know that some older decoders may not be compatible with the RESET command which will then result in a decoder that will not stop while the RESET has been triggered.
Aha I have long wondered about the Massoth Stop Facility but never got round to researching it as it was not really a problem for me. May get to grips with it now as I do use Track Power in my Shed during the Winter Months.

Out of interest in my Manual the ESM is in section 5.4.2 of my Manual (not 8.2). Possibly difference between Newer, US and Euro Versions but is also easily found (if you knew it existed) in the Index.
 
Last edited:
G

Greyfox

Registered
28 Jun 2019
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Farnham
New issue...

This "slow" is probably a setting for momentum in the loco, or the controller or both.

There are reasons to not have immediate starting and stopping, your trains and their geartrains will last longer.

For the acceleration and deceleration in the loco itself, it is CV3 and CV4, you might want a primer on the typical CV's to change....

On the Massoth control system itself, I'm sure someone here knows. I use Zimo.

Greg
Hi thanks I will look in to the cv ok