Political correctness = a little something missing

ebay mike

ebay mike

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Spotted this on eBay.de - I've got three BR80s awaiting duties for my Leopold train (two to double-head and a banker). At the moment I have no intention of adding any timber baulks for protection, but they will all bear full DR wartime logos which include the ancient religious symbol in it's infamous reversed format. Do I need to be careful when posting photos or will censorship automatically kick in? Placing a kiss below the Reich's eagle simply doesn't do it for me.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

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25 Oct 2009
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The Germans themselves have some quite specific laws about the use of the symbol in question, I believe, but as you're not planning (I assume?) to try to sell them on eBay.de I really don't think you'll have a problem, Mike.
I can't see anyone on here objecting to the correct use of the markings in a purely historical context...?

Jon.
 
voodoopenguin

voodoopenguin

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I believe the accepted policy is to replace the offending symbol with a small picture of a fluffy kitten so please comply. Then post photos.

Paul
 
JimmyB

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If this is done for accuracy, rather than "the hell of it" then why not, its not as if we can wipe what happened off the history books!!
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

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I suppose it's down to the sentiments of those who include the swastika emblem on any representation of any item of historical significance of that era or a need to call out its omission or modifications ? That's one that has always been hard to gauge ;)

I speak as person who lost a number of close family members at the hands of those who favoured displaying that symbol. Both before and during the WWII. But that never stopped me buying and displaying models of a Mercedes W125 and Auto Union Stromliniewagen with said emblem affixed to their tails - It's historically accurate and they represent an important part of motorsport and wheeled vehicle record breaking. I heartily recommend the book "Racing the Silver Arrows" by Chris Nixon as a detailed account of that era from that perspective. Max
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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It looks pretty smart - yep, I suppose the s******a is still a bit of an issue, but in this country, as Jon says, in a historical setting, I don't see the need for getting hysterical :cool:

The alternative is the black and white cross used on aircraft wings - mind you, I can remember applying s******a decals to Airfix kits as a youngster - and that would have been no more than 15 years after the end of WW2 :nod::nod::nod:
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

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Spotted this on eBay.de - I've got three BR80s awaiting duties for my Leopold train (two to double-head and a banker). At the moment I have no intention of adding any timber baulks for protection, but they will all bear full DR wartime logos which include the ancient religious symbol in it's infamous reversed format. Do I need to be careful when posting photos or will censorship automatically kick in? Placing a kiss below the Reich's eagle simply doesn't do it for me.
i think of it liek this if you were working for a film or tv company filming somthing no one would comment on the logo so cant see it being a problem.
 
P

Paul M

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What do military modellers do? Surely the same logic applies
 
Paul2727

Paul2727

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I realise that this is a lot more 'in your face' than a couple of small decals, but from the snippet of an article shown below, I would say that feelings still run fairly deep.
The North Yorkshire Moors Railway, which operates as a charity, announced that it would not be inviting the group, called Das Reich, due to negative publicity.
The event, which has been taking place at the Levisham station, near Pickering, for the last 12 years, sees the site transformed into the German-occupied French village 'Le Visham', during a war-themed weekend held in October.

The weekend also involves Allied soldiers, but will no longer feature people posing as Nazi soldiers as the charity has reportedly blamed negative national media articles about the re-enactment.
 
ebay mike

ebay mike

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I believe the accepted policy is to replace the offending symbol with a small picture of a fluffy kitten so please comply. Then post photos.

Paul
A picture of a pussy on the cabside? :openmouth: I've seen a few in the messroom in the distant past - but never on a loco!:giggle::giggle::giggle:
Best I go hide somewhere.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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My view is that you are replicating a Model from a period of History that had many foul moments. However if we try to ‘cleanse’ the fact that it happened trying to erase all symbols in Pictures and Models then we are in some way trying to forget that it all happened. It did happen and we must remember, the Models are a reflection of that and should never be admonished as it is not them that caused the problems.
 
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playmofire

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This may help:


Scroll down to this paragraph: Is owning things with swastikas on them illegal?

You are dealing with not political correctness but the constitutional law of Germany and the effects of the Holacaust and Nazism on the nation. I should imagine that if you post the photos on a non-German website, there shouldn't be a problem. (I'm unsure whether you are planning to sell it on eBay.)
 
ebay mike

ebay mike

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This may help:


Scroll down to this paragraph: Is owning things with swastikas on them illegal?

You are dealing with not political correctness but the constitutional law of Germany and the effects of the Holacaust and Nazism on the nation. I should imagine that if you post the photos on a non-German website, there shouldn't be a problem. (I'm unsure whether you are planning to sell it on eBay.)
I have no plans to sell this train once completed. The gun itself is only about half done and will carry the correct insignia and lettering (already sourced from Pederhaus in Germany) and like the full sized job the offending sign was never on there in the first place. Support vehicles are largely completed and only show the black & white balkankreuse (introduced in 1943) to denote Wermacht property. The locos themselves will be renumbered to eradicate duplication but all will have the eagle and swastika on the cabsides. The gun crew (converted firemen) should have a miniature version on their helmets. I anticipate a video of the ensemble will appear on YouTube at some stage so that might be a sticking point.
129144_e5cc35ed4ed3f8030ce58e4bab53973f.jpg
 
korm kormsen

korm kormsen

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well, that thing again...
if you put the eagle with a swastika in the circle, or a swastika only on anything, you are subject to be persecuted if:

a) you do it in Germany, or bring it into Germany.
b) if you are German and do it anywhere on earth.*)

on models in germany i have seen eagles with the "Balkenkreuz" (as seen above in the pic of that van) or the "Ritterkreuz" (as the medal), or even triangles inside the circle and they seemed to be allowed.

*) so, if i, as a German, would paint a swastika on a model on my layout here in Paraguay and a German prosecutor would get knowledge of that, next time i would visit Germany, i would likely be taken into custody at the airport. (and the visit could be prolongated considerably)

on the other hand, in public libraries there exist still older books with swastikas printed on one of the first pages.

in my opinion, as an expat German, they are making too much fuzz about it.
in our days to some persons in certain circles the swastika is interesting, more because it is forbidden, than because of its historic meaning.
 
Gavin Sowry

Gavin Sowry

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OK, how do our model aircraft bretheren get on........

I believe it is illegal to bring Nazi memorabilia into the United States, too (think I recall seeing that advice on some arrival document one time).
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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Without wanting to make too light of this, the swastika features in the film The Sound of Music...
 
Gavin Sowry

Gavin Sowry

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Without wanting to make too light of this, the swastika features in the film The Sound of Music...
I have just come from the house of Captain von Trapp, incidently the only house in Austria not flying the flag of the Third Reich, but we have seen to that.

Watched that film again only last night.
 
P

playmofire

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23 Oct 2010
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well, that thing again...
if you put the eagle with a swastika in the circle, or a swastika only on anything, you are subject to be persecuted if:

a) you do it in Germany, or bring it into Germany.
b) if you are German and do it anywhere on earth.*)

on models in germany i have seen eagles with the "Balkenkreuz" (as seen above in the pic of that van) or the "Ritterkreuz" (as the medal), or even triangles inside the circle and they seemed to be allowed.

*) so, if i, as a German, would paint a swastika on a model on my layout here in Paraguay and a German prosecutor would get knowledge of that, next time i would visit Germany, i would likely be taken into custody at the airport. (and the visit could be prolongated considerably)

on the other hand, in public libraries there exist still older books with swastikas printed on one of the first pages.

in my opinion, as an expat German, they are making too much fuzz about it.
in our days to some persons in certain circles the swastika is interesting, more because it is forbidden, than because of its historic meaning.
I think you mean prosecuted
well, that thing again...
if you put the eagle with a swastika in the circle, or a swastika only on anything, you are subject to be persecuted if:

a) you do it in Germany, or bring it into Germany.
b) if you are German and do it anywhere on earth.*)

on models in germany i have seen eagles with the "Balkenkreuz" (as seen above in the pic of that van) or the "Ritterkreuz" (as the medal), or even triangles inside the circle and they seemed to be allowed.

*) so, if i, as a German, would paint a swastika on a model on my layout here in Paraguay and a German prosecutor would get knowledge of that, next time i would visit Germany, i would likely be taken into custody at the airport. (and the visit could be prolongated considerably)

on the other hand, in public libraries there exist still older books with swastikas printed on one of the first pages.

in my opinion, as an expat German, they are making too much fuzz about it.
in our days to some persons in certain circles the swastika is interesting, more because it is forbidden, than because of its historic meaning.
"prosecuted" is the word you want, korm, although some people may see it as persecution, although I take your point about being forbidden creating interest for some. It's a difficult balancing act.
 
korm kormsen

korm kormsen

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24 Oct 2009
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playmo,
i meant being drawn befor a judge by a district attorny.
but i didn't look this up, and i never use spellcheckers.