Planning US Colorado NG trip advise please

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maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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Just getting into the basic planning stages for holiday centred on Colorado NG. Initial plan fly from UK to Chicago and take Amtrak California Zephire to Denver. Colorado RR museum then hire mid size RV for 10 days to do Silverton, Cumbres Toltec and Georgetown Loop ending up LA or San Francisco. Flying from there back to UK.

What I need to know is apart from the 4 RR attractions mentioned what others are there worth visiting along this 10 day road trip and is the idea of using an RV over hire car/hotel rooms nuts. Plan to go May/June or September. Realise there are snow issues either end of season in Rockies.. Your ideas and tips will be most welcome. Max.
 
;) Chicago to Denver on the Zephyr, good choice. It's the most boring part of that train trip, but is worth it for the train riding experience alone. If you go sleeper, you get your meals chucked in as part of the fare. Coach seats are actually OK for one nights travel, they recline, are spacious, and the train is usually warm. You can get the same meals in the Diner as the 'First Class' passengers, just have to pay for them. You can slum it by getting snacks, and more importantly, a beer, from the Cafe downstairs in the Sightseeing Lounge Car (access to this car is available to all passengers).
We've done Denver-Omaha 3 times now, overnight, and went coach all 3 trips (2000 hrs to 0500hrs, hardly worth the extra fare for a bed, and too late/early for meals). Denver itself, has a good public transport network. There is a free shuttle service from near the station, up 16th. Each end of 16th are bus hubs to the outer reaches of Denver. You can catch a bus out to Golden, near the Colorado RR Museum, then a local, to the museum itself. We did, but check this out... can't seem to find the connection on the RTD website lately.

Can't offer any specifics on the other Colorado NG attractions, because I haven't done them. But, 4 of us as a family group (4 x Senior Citizens..... you can get SS rates from as low as 55 years of age) in a people mover (mainly for the luggage capacity) and used hotels. When we got to California, I saw a sign, Los Angeles, straight ahead, and Bakersfield (on the route to San Francisco) turn right... I turned right, took Highway 58, and 'found' Tehachapi and its famous Loop.
Of course, heading west from Durango etc you could divert slightly to the Grand Canyon, and maybe even Las Vegas, and a spot of the old historic Route 66. Just don't forget, the States is a bloody big place, and it takes a looong time to drive anywhere, even at 80 mph on the Interstates. Oh, and they drive on the wrong side of the road... no wonder there are so many accidents.

When you get to San Fran, dehire the vehicle as quickly as possible... parking is rare, and expensive. Use the MUNI, that's Cable Cars, Trolley Buses, Trams, and Buses. Catch the BART train to San Francisco International Airport, it drops you literally in the Departures Hall, as in, you actually have to go through the Departures Hall to exit the station.

This 'advice' is based on 3 trips to Midwest USA, and 11,000 miles of AMTRAK travel
 
If you get as far as 'Frisco, there's the Roaring Camp Railroad just north of Santa Cruz. Coupla Shays with nice noisy whistles echoing round the mountain. If you come through Yosemite, there's the Sugar Pine Railroad right at the south gate (another Shay). We did our tour with a mid-range car and stopped in motel/hotels. Didn't have any trouble just rocking up and getting a room, booked nothing in front except the car, and first and last nights accom. We also managed parking for a couple of days in 'Frisco, don't recall it being expensive in China Town.
 
Take a hat and some sun glasses 8)
 
Hi Max
Quel conicidence.....
We are also in the planning stage for a very similar trip.
A few differences are that we want to work in the Amtrak CZ from Denver to Frisco (or the other way around) as well as the stretch between Chicago and Denver but at different stages of the stay.
The SUV to do all of the remaining sections of the NG 'circle' together with the odd extra sites, is on the plan.
We will have to of course visit 'Beaver Creek' (now a very expensive residential fairly near to the Vail resort) but the creek still exists!

The touristy visits to Grand Canyon and Vegas will also be involved.
We have to work out the best itinerary so as to get that lot in in an efficient way in a two to three week trip.
 
I wouldn't recommend the Chicago to Denver train - it's just boring flat corn fields.
But you MUST do the Denver to San Fran segment by train - stunning scenery for 2 days.
I'd suggest flying into Denver, hiring a car/RV for a week or so and visiting the railways you mentioned. Don't forget there's other stuff to see besides railways. Mesa Verde NP is near Silverton and lots of other nat parks in the (large) area.
Then get on amtrak from Denver to Sacramento for the railway museum (right near the amtrak station) and onto SF.
Here's a story I wrote about our trip 3 years ago.

http://www.on-track-on-line.com/trips/trip-2011-09-15-hunter.shtml
 
gregh said:
But you MUST do the Denver to San Fran segment by train - stunning scenery for 2 days.
Click to expand...

;) Indeed, a most memorable ride. In fact one of the scariest I've had... we were Eastbound on #6, and exited the Moffat Tunnel into a heavy mist/fog/drizzle, couldn't see very far at all. Now, I've flown many many times in conditions like that, no worries, we're miles from the ground. But, on the train, I know that just outside the field of vision, there's some mighty big cliffs and embankments, and we ain't slowing down, and what if we hit a slip...? Boy, was I relieved when half way down the Front Range, the weather cleared to reveal Denver bathed in sunshine.
 


Colorado Railroad Museum. The reefer in the background is the prototype for an LGB model.

While in Denver, you must visit Caboose Hobbies.... heaps of G scale, including spare parts like bogies, and moldings for windows for scratchbuilding.
 
Gavin Sowry said:
Colorado Railroad Museum. The reefer in the background is the prototype for an LGB model. While in Denver, you must visit Caboose Hobbies.... heaps of G scale, including spare parts like bogies, and moldings for windows for scratchbuilding.
Click to expand...
So that will be the one that's a lot smaller than the one that Bachmann and Accucraft used for theirs ;D Visit Caboose hobbies ? There goes the hand baggage only plan ;).
Seriously, very useful ideas there Bob, Greg and Gavin. Looks a better idea to go for a start from SF/LA to Denver, using Amtrak, then do a big round trip by RV in the CO area. Then to Chicago to pick airplane back to Blighty. So really need to collect places of interest around the "NG Circle" area of Colorado. Will read your blog Greg. Mike, I never realised thre was a real Beavercreek.
Now what chance a ticket to a 49'ers/Broncos/Raiders game if early September ? Don't ask for much. Max.
 
Max, There is a rather nice 2ft Gauge NG Steam line not too far from Denver at a sort of Mining/Cowboy Town. Called the Cripple Creek and Victor. Worth a Trip. I went onwards from there towards Durango but not all the way on the Trackbed of an Old Railway line that Headed South from somewhere near the CC & V. Found it on a Map. SUV will be ideal for that Drive if you can find it.

Have a greta trip,
JonD
 
In addition to the obvious Durango-Silverton and Cumbres and Toltec;
there`s the Georgetown Loop,
the Cripple Creek & Victor railroad (a bit twee but nice all the same)
San Luis and Rio Grande Railroad
Royal Gorge Route Railroad

Not all are narrow gauge but even some of the standard gauge is running on past narrow gauge routes

colorado map complete.jpg
 
You haven't given yourself enough time so forget about Chicago to Denver by rail. Fly to Denver, you still have a long drive down to Walsenburg then west to the C&T. After that drive to the D&S. Not much of either of those railroads have much linesiding in the really meaty bits in the middle. That can only be done on charters. But that's where you should spend most of your time, on those two lines. YSMP too far out of the way and a bit disappointing when you get there. Likewise Cripple Creek. It's a rather short line, just out and back, no run round at the end and you have a long drive to get there. If you were to take it in then divert off the Interstate at Pueblo or thereabouts before you get to Walsenburg. I would say you have to concentrate on the C&T and D&S, that's where you'll get the best action, Chama up to Cumbres well worth the chase uphill, that is eastbound. On the D&S you have to spend a coupla days on the line from Durango up to the HighLine, then a leisurely drive over Coal Mountain Pass down into Silverton, which has to be seen. At the height of the season you can get three maybe four trains on that line. Georgetown Loop? Well I did it once before they shut it down, fit it in at the end, I would say. Don't go near Cabbies in Sacramento if you want to keep your credit card unharmed, it's a lethal place for suckers like me. Sacramento Museum? A long way to go for a rather modest show, although there is the cab forward to see. It's a huge undertaking you are contemplating because, as someone has pointed out, the USofA is a heckuva big place and it's not until you start exploring it you become aware of how big, and how much to see. I just kept going back again and again. Oh yes, if you are doing a lot of travelling across country don't forget the time zones. I arrived at Kingman one evening after a long drive and wondered why everything was shut. They'd all gone to bed. Best of luck old boy
 
RE San Francisco area:

Roaring Camp & Big Trees is in Felton near Santa Cruz and is a definite recommend ;) its about an hour or so south of SF, beware hwy 17 over the mountains, its twisty and everyone drives like the Indy 500, I cant recommend hwy 1 down the coast, even though the scenery is gorgeous, as its also twisty but pretty much on a cliff face all the way and I dont even know if its open all the way, a piece of it fell into the ocean near Half Moon Bay a couple winters ago.

http://www.roaringcamp.com/

Also near SF and HIGHY recommended is the California State Railway Museum in Sacramento. this is DEFINITELY worth a days side trip. Also nearby is the Western Railway Museum, which has alot of the old Sacramento Northern Trolley equipment

http://www.csrmf.org/

http://www.wrm.org/

South of all this is also the Niles Canyon RR museum

http://www.ncry.org/

haven't been yet but I hear its worth the trip, and if that isnt enough there live steamers in Sonoma Traintown north of the city, and the Napa winetrain, worth a trip alone.

http://www.traintown.com/

http://winetrain.com/

Between all this, the Cable Cars, and all the other things to do in SF you could spend an entire 2 weeks vacation here! (now I'm thinking about next summer :o )

If time is limited then Roaring Camp and the State RR museum would be my 'go to' suggestions.
 
Thank you Vic, Cyril and Mike. all very useful extra information there. I'm starting to get a feel for the distances and how it fits together. Looks like it's breaking down into a 14 day two parter (5:9) starting out with SF as a hub (with time to de-lag) to visit 3 or 4 RR themed things then a trip on the Amtrak CZ to Denver with a big loop around featuring C&T/S&D and a few other things suggested. A compact hire car in both locations, no expensive pick up one place set down another. Now do I go back to UK from Denver (I do not think there are direct flights) or go for another trip on the CZ and direct back from SF ? Once I've got that sorted need to optimize the expenses. Max.
P.S. Searching t'internet to see if anybody does a "Dirty Harry" location tour of SF. Do I feel lucky punk O0
 
I know the Denver to Chicago CZ stretch is not the most enticing scenery but the fact that it is still a train journey does make it, at the least, nicely bearable.
Also the opportunity to browse Chicago's nightlife for a coupe of days does pose an inviting prospect of 'winding down' from the Frisco, Vegas, Grand Canyon, Denver and NG events before the flight back to Blighty.
 
beavercreek said:
Also the opportunity to browse Chicago's nightlife for a coupe of days does pose an inviting prospect of 'winding down' from the Frisco, Denver and NG events before the flight back to Blighty.
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'Scuse the minor edit Mike. Thought about that but I'm out to maximise RR "value", both NG and standard, on the trip. Not sure given Greg's blog if I want to experience the Denver/Chicago Amtrak rail leg. Will look to see what works out best - return CZ from Denver and direct return from SF or a split flight and a stop off at an eastern major city for a day or two. Max.
P.S. Your NG circle maps very helpful.
 
Apologies for the map places on the railroad lines looking a little blurred. I had to reduce the resolution to allow it to be attached. If you want a more high resolution version, I can email it to you.
 
vsmith said:
RE San Francisco area:


Also near SF and HIGHY recommended is the California State Railway Museum in Sacramento. this is DEFINITELY worth a days side trip. Also nearby is the Western Railway Museum, which has alot of the old Sacramento Northern Trolley equipment
Click to expand...

;) I'll second that. We took AMTRAK up to there from San Francisco (board bus at Ferry Terminal, and quick trip over Bay Bridge to Emeryville). Plenty of trains throughout the day. Good day trip. Was 103°F the first time we did this.... found a good old fashioned cowboy saloon in Old Sacramento, just out side the museum.
 
Beever,
Your map will be most useful for my next trip to Colorado when I get around to it. Have saved a copy on the iPad.
JonD
 
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