Piko 37610 - deary me

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RH Prague

Central European. the station pub is Czech !!
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Just bought this, new. Like the look of it, even if no doors open, but deary me, is it unstable. Has anyone else got any experience with this or a similar Piko 6- wheeler? The slightest track imperfection, the slightest growing plant leaf, derails it. I guess it is the funny set-up which connects the middle axle to the outer ones, and helps it round tight curves, which is the problem. Does anybody think there is a solution. Would metal wheels help? I plan to change them, but not if the thing cannot run a single loop without derailing. Or weighting it?
I don't suppose there is any point in contacting PIko about it? It seems to me that it has been assembled as intended.
Also...if I do change the wheels; this is my first Piko vehicle and the wheels are mounted in a slightly different way to LGB. Does anybody have a preferred way of doing the fitting? The axles seem very firmly secured. As does the roof, if I would wish to fit lighting and figures. Is there a "Piko way"?
all in all, not a happy bunny at a price of €149.

I guess I should do a version of this for the Product Review thread, but would like to hear from more experienced Piko owners first.
 
Hi I've got four of them and when I got them found that they were rather "stiff" when running. Put them on one of my down inclines and they just sat on the track - did not move.

Decided to invest in a lot of (rather expensive) metal ball bearing wheels which solved the problem. They now run very smoothly..... but at a price!!
 
I also have a rake of these - four of the green versions - which seem to run great behind either my BR24 or BR64; all of mine have Piko metal wheelsets (just standard ones, not the ballbearing type). I've run them at several different lines when visiting on GSS open days, and have never come across any derailment problems.
I bought the metal wheels from Top Slots'n'Trains, as they had the best price on the three-axle packs specially designed for these particular coaches - at the time, about sixteen quid for three axles, though I suspect they may be more now.....

Putting the metal axles on was no problem at all - they snapped in easily in the same manner as LGB ones, as far as I can recall. Not sure how the roof comes off, as I haven't got round to opening any of mine up.....

Jon.
 
You do not say what Radius of track you run them on? If as looks likely you are using LGB Track are you using R1 Points? If so slow speed through the diverging(curved) route would be very appropriate. Also as suggested Metal Wheels would likely help, I have usd Bachman Wheels on many different kinds of stock with great sucess and good running. But worth checking that the Back to back Gauge is correct! Oh that configuration is known as a Cleminsen Bogie.

Bogie - Wikipedia
 
I've got a rake of four (still with the original plastic wheelsets)- not had any problems even on my few R1s, but then they only travel slowly over those. They hammer along quite nicely behind a BR218 on large radius curves.
 
The wheels on these are a larger diameter than the "standard" LGB and Bachmann size - if you're wanting to retrofit these coaches then you will need the actual Piko wheelsets.
The chassis arrangement with the sliding central axle plate does seem to work well, even on tight curves as others have mentioned - though I'm not sure how well it handles short reverse curves like back-to-back R1 points, as has been said above I would run through any such arrangement VERY slowly.....

Jon.
 
A friend of mine near Cambridge (who isn't on this forum) has some. He simply took the middle axle set out of his to improve running.

It's hardly noticeable unless you look very carefully....
 
Gizzy said:
A friend of mine near Cambridge (who isn't on this forum) has some. He simply took the middle axle set out of his to improve running.

It's hardly noticeable unless you look very carefully....
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Andy Rush did that with the LGB Barner Clemisens, not that they ran badly but he wanted 4 Wheel Swiss looking coaches and deamed them to be thus after removal of the middle wheel set.
 
Thanks for the replies.
There is definitely nothing challenging about my track for a normal vehicle. All curves and points are R3 with the exception of a couple of points in sidings that this vehicle hasn't been near. Before I took to the forum I had my Stainz running it on its own on Navigator speed notch 11, which is pretty slow. There is one point which tends to be slightly "wobbly" (I have to keep replacing ballast to level it up) but generally every thing else runs over that point without any problem. Maybe I can post a video of it on that point.

The only other vehicles that tend to derail are among the rake of grey Liliput wagons, but even they are nothing like as sensitive as this one.

Its disappointing (but good to know) that it would need Piko wheels, as I have some metal wheels ready to fit, but I got them from the guy in the US that several others on here have used.

It's interesting that Gizzy's friend just took out the middle axle, I did wonder if that is a solution.

Maybe there is something wrong with mine, as it really has a "knock me down with a feather" characteristic about it. I think if it was a general feature of the design, more of you would recognise similar problems.

Not sure what my cost effective options are other than removing the middle axle, I can address the dealer I guess, but it's Modell-land in Germany, so I am not sure how they might respond.
 
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Modell-land have a good reputation and i would think they would be happy to help - or even take a return.
 
Good to know. I guess it will help Modell-land too if I manage to capture the misbehaviour on a video.
 
RH Prague said:
Good to know. I guess it will help Modell-land too if I manage to capture the misbehaviour on a video.
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Wheels are funny things at times.

Before being too drastic, it's worth checking that:

  1. The axles are well lubricated and have a bit of side play - side play is important in our scaled-down models
  2. The centre axle mounting can slide easily
  3. The centre axle mounting has enough clearance for some up and down movement - if the coach pivots vertically on that centre axle at any time, the other wheels won't like it
You've probably done all this by now anyway, but I have a minor fascination in this sort of thing, and would rather see the 6w work rather than reduce it to a 4w.

Metal wheel will always help - you get some extra weight right down low.

A bit of added weight may help - but start gently, and add a little bit more (test it with the roof off if that's possible, once you've discovered how to get inside)

I only say all this, because I am an expert on badly laid track - virtually all of mine is badly laid :devil::devil::devil:
 
Is there any vertical travel in any of the axles? Just curious... there really has to be to handle vertical curves.

What accomodation has been made to follow changes in "cross level", i.e. where one rail is higher than the other. Again, there must be some accommodation in the design for this to work.

I'm getting the feeling that all of this is done in the journals.

Greg
 
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So I have learnt a bit more about its behaviour this afternoon. It does not like cambered curves (if that is the correct terminology. You can hopefully see that on this curve the middle wheel was lifting off the rail. I reduced the camber to accomodate it.

Hopefully in a moment I can post a link to a video that gives a bit more insight into what bothers it.
 

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This video shows the problem well I think. It derails on the curve there, every time. The gradient is only modest, as you hopefully can see, but I guess the point where it levels off, and straight away goes into a curve, is problematic. I can try to ease the gradient a little, but I have been trying that for a while. It is true that I do get some wheel spin with some locos at that point. The track here is laid on a raised soil bed which is gradually eroding year by year, so its a never ending battle.

All that said, this is the only vehicle that derails at that point. My brother -in-law, the guy in the vid, does agree that taking the middle axle out might help, but as Rhinochugger says, it does seem a shame to have to do that. And they are very firmly fixed too, those axles. He is stronger than me but he could not get the axle out by hand
 
RH Prague said:
This video shows the problem well I think. It derails on the curve there, every time. The gradient is only modest, as you hopefully can see, but I guess the point where it levels off, and straight away goes into a curve, is problematic. I can try to ease the gradient a little, but I have been trying that for a while. It is true that I do get some wheel spin with some locos at that point. The track here is laid on a raised soil bed which is gradually eroding year by year, so its a never ending battle.

All that said, this is the only vehicle that derails at that point. My brother -in-law, the guy in the vid, does agree that taking the middle axle out might help, but as Rhinochugger says, it does seem a shame to have to do that. And they are very firmly fixed too, those axles. He is stronger than me but he could not get the axle out by hand
Click to expand...
Cracked it in one - it's pivoting on that centre axle.

Somehow you need to ease the top of the gradient to remove the hump.

A 6-coupled loco would do the same, but with a shorter wheelbase, the flanges of the outer axles don't clear the railhead.

I know Jon (Zerogee) said the wheels were larger diameter than LGB, but f you could find some close in diameter you'd find that they have a larger flange and ould just do the trick if you can't ease the hump enough.
 
RH Prague said:
This video shows the problem well I think. It derails on the curve there, every time. The gradient is only modest, as you hopefully can see, but I guess the point where it levels off, and straight away goes into a curve, is problematic. I can try to ease the gradient a little, but I have been trying that for a while. It is true that I do get some wheel spin with some locos at that point. The track here is laid on a raised soil bed which is gradually eroding year by year, so its a never ending battle.

All that said, this is the only vehicle that derails at that point. My brother -in-law, the guy in the vid, does agree that taking the middle axle out might help, but as Rhinochugger says, it does seem a shame to have to do that. And they are very firmly fixed too, those axles. He is stronger than me but he could not get the axle out by hand
Click to expand...
A thought occurs to me.

What about using a pair of LGB wheels in the centre axle :think::think::think: they will be smaller diameter to ese over the hump, yet have larger flanges for the occasions where the tread may not hit the rail .......................

I've not seen the full method of mounting the centre axlebox, but .........................
 
Clearly the issue is with that hump in the track. A coach should not be able to woble on the middle wheel like your brother demonstrates. To be honest anything running over that section of track is in danger of a derailment.

Solution?

Lift the rails, cut out whatever earth makes that change so that you have a smoother perhaps lower section of track for a Metre or so. If the earth is continually dropping in the general area consider a hidden bridge using Concrete Gravel Board mounted on a Cement Base at each end.
 
The change of gradient at the top of your hill does look a bit rapid. Can you ease it off over half a metre or more.
 
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