Piko 2-6-0 Mogul Battery Conversion Questions

cfuller12

cfuller12

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Hi all and greetings from New England (outside Boston). I'm relatively new to the sport (as they say) and am embarking on a battery conversion for a Piko 2-6-0 mogul with an onboard Piko SmartDecoder (this one - Buy modeltrains | PIKO Webshop, though mine's a slightly older version). My hope is to install a 14.8v 3400mAh battery and BlueRail DCC receiver but I'm having trouble finding much info about this decoder and want to make sure I get things right. The decoder diagram can be found at PIKO 38212 Instruction Manual (Page 19 of 20) | ManualsLib, though I'm seeing a few small discrepancies with what's actually installed (for example, my board doesn't have screw terminals and all the wires came directly soldered). That said, the wiring diagram is generally accurate. Also, the manual claims this is an NMRA standard board, so will presumably/hopefully work with the Bluerail.

Two questions:
1. I believe I should just be able to connect the BlueRail to the M1 (red) and S1 (white) terminals to switch from track power to the battery/receiver, correct?
2. This loco has 5v power for smoke. Apologies if I'm just missing this elsewhere on the forum but how do folks typically power these after converting? I may leave this for a future step but if anyone has any good reading or YT videos on this, I'd appreciate the info.

Thanks,
Chris
 
Hi Chris,
Mark from Sacramento ca. I converted the same engine 3-4 years ago. I Love Bluerail!!! The Piko engine is my workhorse, so I use it a lot. I’ve replaced many of the working parts! Piko has upgraded the drive wheel chassis. If you want help, please send pics of wiring and existing circuit boards, so I can compare. The smoke uses battery up quickly. So I use is sparingly. I installed a larger battery in tender, so I can run it all day without charging and without smoke turned on. Wish you well!
Mark
 
cfuller12 said:
Hi all and greetings from New England (outside Boston). I'm relatively new to the sport (as they say) and am embarking on a battery conversion for a Piko 2-6-0 mogul with an onboard Piko SmartDecoder (this one - Buy modeltrains | PIKO Webshop, though mine's a slightly older version). My hope is to install a 14.8v 3400mAh battery and BlueRail DCC receiver but I'm having trouble finding much info about this decoder and want to make sure I get things right. The decoder diagram can be found at PIKO 38212 Instruction Manual (Page 19 of 20) | ManualsLib, though I'm seeing a few small discrepancies with what's actually installed (for example, my board doesn't have screw terminals and all the wires came directly soldered). That said, the wiring diagram is generally accurate. Also, the manual claims this is an NMRA standard board, so will presumably/hopefully work with the Bluerail.

Two questions:
1. I believe I should just be able to connect the BlueRail to the M1 (red) and S1 (white) terminals to switch from track power to the battery/receiver, correct?
2. This loco has 5v power for smoke. Apologies if I'm just missing this elsewhere on the forum but how do folks typically power these after converting? I may leave this for a future step but if anyone has any good reading or YT videos on this, I'd appreciate the info.

Thanks,
Chris
Click to expand...
If those quoted wires are indeed the power from the track that should be correct.

If you wish to save a track powered option a ‘Double Pole Double Throw DPDT’ switch can be used here to enable battery (dead rail) or track option. It is also useful to retain the track option for changing CV settings though In some locomotives I have removed all possibilities for track power and installed a socket for this option. Though I am not sure how effective this would be with your chosen BlueRail but it works ok on my Fosworks equipment.
 
Welcome to the Forum, Chris!

If the smoke unit is wired to a decoder output, you can alter a CV to give 5V on this output.

If you wish to connect it externally to the decoder, you can use a small 5V regulator to give you 5V. You would then need either a physical switch, or to arrange for a relay/FET switch to be controlled from your radio system, or again an output from the decoder.


Smoke units are quite power-hungry, so you may want to take note of what others have said about the reduction in run-time, if using smoke.

PhilP
 
The Piko decoder creates the 5v for the smoke unit onboard. Since the Piko board is a DCC board, then it assumes it is given constant DCC power (which Bluerail will).

So, there should be no additional wiring... the piko unit should control the smoke by the function button on page 11 of the english manual.

What is your concern?
 
HI Chris,
I have done some of these conversions.
S1 and S2 are the power coming from the track to the board. M1 and M2 are the power leads from the board to the motor, don't touch them. All you need to do is disconnect S1 and S2 from the board (either by cuttiing the wires or unsoldering) and run the Bluerail output to those terminals on the board.
Make your battery connections to the Bluerail according to the instructions. So now the engine is receiving power from the Bluerail instead of the track. All the factory functions and controls will still operate as before. The volume and smoke power on/off switch under the water fill hatch will still work. all the dcc functions will be the same as before. you are just controlling the engine via Bluerail instead of through the track.
Hope this helps.
 
Any one have any photos of their PIKO Mogul conversion? I'm trying to figure out if a 18.5V 3400ma (5 cells) will fit and where (inside the tender, in / under the wood pile, etc.)
PIKO claims their tri mode Mogul can fit a 18.5V 3400ma. How did they do it?
 
billm1123 said:
Any one have any photos of their PIKO Mogul conversion? I'm trying to figure out if a 18.5V 3400ma (5 cells) will fit and where (inside the tender, in / under the wood pile, etc.)
PIKO claims their tri mode Mogul can fit a 18.5V 3400ma. How did they do it?
Click to expand...
The new engines haven't shipped yet and there is no documentation online yet. I've had the tender of my PIKO mini-mogul open a couple of times to see where I can fit a RailBoss, MyLocoSound and battery. The interior space is reduced by the 6 long mounting posts that go from the top of the tender shell to the tender floor where the screws go up from the bottom. There really isn't much space below the wood pile, again because of where the mounting screws are located. The mount for the speaker is in the middle of the tender floor. Behind that, there is room between the mounting posts that is large enough for a 4S1P or 5S1P Li-Ion battery pack. I'm planning to put battery holders back there for 3 wide attached under the top of the tender and then 1 wide on the side. (Individual protected cells in holders are much cheaper than battery packs and for our low drain/slow charging environment don't need to be balance charged, in my opinion.) The RailBoss would go across the back using the existing mounting holes. The space in front of the speaker is reduced by intrusion of the fuel access doors recessed into the front of the tender. However, there is enough room for the current circuit board and I expect that is where the new electronics will attach to the existing mounting holes. the water filler lifts off to expose the location for a small board to change channels, adjust volume, etc. We'll have to wait until someone buys one and opens it up or the documentation is available to know for sure.
 

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billm1123 said:
Any one have any photos of their PIKO Mogul conversion? I'm trying to figure out if a 18.5V 3400ma (5 cells) will fit and where (inside the tender, in / under the wood pile, etc.)
PIKO claims their tri mode Mogul can fit a 18.5V 3400ma. How did they do it?
Click to expand...
Possibly may fit in the boiler, I have managed that with ease on my 2-10-2t 14AA NiMh, a bit trickier with my 0-6-0t but I managed 8 x AAA batteries which were more than enough for ample power.
 
Hi Ken thanks for the comments (what follows is meant as a discussion, not an argument)
There really isn't much space below the wood pile, again because of where the mounting screws are located. The mount for the speaker is in the middle of the tender floor.
Click to expand...
From the PIKO YouTube video I would guess that they cut out the tender roof under the wood pile and probably the mounting posts as well. I have one of the digital sound units (SF #704) and the speaker height takes up most of the vertical space, so I am guess they also removed the baffle to drop the speaker down a bit.
Although I do like the idea of removability (tiny chance of fire, swap out batteries to a spare pack, etc.) I'm not sure I want to hack away that much at my $800 unit.
Behind that [the speaker], there is room between the mounting posts that is large enough for a 4S1P or 5S1P Li-Ion battery pack.
Click to expand...
In my case, the sound equipped unit already has a little PCB (for volume and smoke) under the water fill cap. That takes up about 3/4" of the ~1.9" vertical space but I might be able to get back 1/4". Maybe just enough for a x2 high pack. I think a 5 cell pack (3 x 2) is 2 1/4" to 2 1/2" wide which would not fit between the speaker and the two rear mounting posts. Battery packs are 2 3/4" long, which won't fit between the 2 posts. Rotating 90 puts the battery's 2 3/4" length outside the rear wall.

I think I might mock up a battery pack and see what it all looks like.

Bill
 
dunnyrail said:
Possibly may fit in the boiler, I have managed that with ease on my 2-10-2t 14AA NiMh, a bit trickier with my 0-6-0t but I managed 8 x AAA batteries which were more than enough for ample power.
Click to expand...
JonD -The boiler is filled with a big weight. But perhaps just sticking the battery pack in the cab is the simplest. I have to think about that.
 
billm1123 said:
JonD -The boiler is filled with a big weight. But perhaps just sticking the battery pack in the cab is the simplest. I have to think about that.
Click to expand...
Yes that is so but in part the batteries can replace the weight and in some cases sit above it, in others I have modified the weight to keep the weight close to original. On some locomotives I have used roofing lead cut and screwed in place, use gloves when working with lead.
 
billm1123 said:
JonD -The boiler is filled with a big weight. But perhaps just sticking the battery pack in the cab is the simplest. I have to think about that.
Click to expand...
On some of my battery conversions I have removed the weight and replaced with batteries. Though not alway as heavy with batteries, a little extra weight can then be added.
 
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