Newish advice for DCC on LGB set

why is your comments to change to battery harmless, but if a track power guy says batteries are crap you go nuts?

just quit it... jeeze...

by the way the bluenami is really pretty untested, although it supposedly uses the stock bluerail stuff...

you really don't know much about DCC I guess, but it did not stop you from suggesting a system without a command station, which is a big difference in how a system works... and technically is not DCC...
 
I removed my tongue-in-cheek comment about batteries, as it seemed to upset certain people. But I stand by the Blunami option for track powered DCC. Most DCC users have a wireless remote, so I fail to see what difference it makes whether the DCC commands are fed to the decoder by wifi, Bluetooth, proprietary wireless at 2.4ghz or whatever.
 
There is a difference as explained in Greg Elmassian Greg Elmassian latest posting...

Trying to de-confuse "what is DCC"

For people who are new, and even many who have used "DCC" for years, there are some significant differences in features, capabilities, and architectures between:: True DCC AND Systems that use DCC decoders. They are not the same. The important difference is a true DCC system utilizes a...
www.gscalecentral.net www.gscalecentral.net
The difference has practical advantages to the user of the system which need to be considered against their needs/wishes.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
Maybe in the spirit of having a better understanding you will read that post... and it's really the tip of the iceberg.

I get it you fail to understand the difference, but I would have hoped your not being conversant in DCC, you might refrain from a recommendation.
Click to expand...
Greg Elmassian Greg Elmassian it would be nice (and good etiquette) if you could name who you are directing your post at, I have seen it in other threads, where the wrong person has misunderstood your comments in posts. Please be assured I am not making comments about the post itself.
 
Ahh... sorry, I did quote what he said... thought that was obvious... I have been arguing with Fred...

next time I will put the quoted part in bold to make it blindingly obvious... (not that you have a chip on your shoulder for me at all Jimmy ;))



And thank you Dave for understanding... the goal here is to help the person who asked the question and wants help in the decision.

There is a lot to DCC that is not obvious, and I'm trying to help the OP make an informed decision.


I'm on the forums of many of these proprietary systems, in this case Blunami is Soundtraxx using the BlueRail system with only their decoder integrated. The principals of this company are mostly here in San Diego, and one of their main support people is in our club and I speak with him 1 to 2 times per week.

So I understand these systems:
  • "proprietary control" throttle, with various types of interfaces, usually like a phone or phone app, but sometimes a "traditional" throttle
  • mated to a wireless receiver which could be bluetooth, 900 MHz ISM, Wi-Fi, Zigbee, etc.
  • this receiver is mated to a DCC decoder
This is NOT a DCC system, but a proprietary system driving a DCC decoder.

There is a whole list of pro's and con's and unfortunately some people wind up going down a dead end.

I am sensitive to people in the hobby, I want them to succeed, not go down the wrong path and end in frustration. Many people do this from poor advice, or people touting their own solution, which might not be the right answer.

Being in a large club that has existed over 20 years, I see that many people will just give up and leave the hobby.

So, let's help people and by strengthening we benefit also from more vendors, choices and more fun.

I research carefully, and the only thing I have ever bought that I wanted my money back on was a LGB "Queen Mary" show car. That's pretty good for about 20 years.

Greg
 
As I understand it:
The OP gas intimated they have a large plot of land, and will have an extensive railway?
If the 'Bluenami' name is to be believed, then it uses Bluetooth to transmit data to the (proprietor) decoder in the locomotives.

Bluetooth is a short-range wireless system, and I doubt it has the range the OP will require?
As the handheld device communicates to the individual decoders, then this becomes an issue.

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
Bluetooth is a short-range wireless system, and I doubt it has the range the OP will require?
Click to expand...
Just to respond to Phil,
There are several Bluetooth options now, and the 4.2 gives you quite a distance.
"Bluetooth 4.2 can hold connection to another device for a maximum of 60 meters (200 feet). With Bluetooth 5.0, that distance is quadrupled to 240 meters (800 feet)"
"The bluetooth used in Blunami should not be confused with limited range classic bluetooth, and allows for control of as many Blunami locos as you may care to use, with great range, and without fear of interference from other users"

I will now shut up, as I don't understand DCC.
 
Fred, that is fine IF your mobile phone supports a later iteration of Bluetooth..

Trying to use an old cast-off phone, won't get you much range.

I don't fully understand DCC. - A gifted(?) amateur.
But as a Communications Engineer, I can spot / point-out weaknesses in an overall 'system'.

PhilP
 
Range can certainly be an issue with systems. Not tested out any scientifically but my experience are thus. Sorry to mention Dead Rail but it is relevant as there are DCC Systems available now both in U.K. and USA. I feel it important that newbies are aware of systems that can save on track cleaning and the sometimes high initial cost of high end DCC systems, though big fleets of battery locomotives can have high costs though not at one hit when starting out to build a fleet, installing as the fleet grows.

Track Power Systems with Radio Options:-
Massoth DCC, on my line 80ft to Shed passing house but with extended Ariel in replacement transmitters for each handset worked fine. Extra cost.
Zimo Z21 DCC WiFi, looses range around 10-15 feet with my iPad indoors. Could be walls causing that issue.
LGB MTS 50-60 ft with luck, seriously decreased as aerial on RX got rusty.

Dead Rail Systems of my experience:-
Crest (sold by Aristocraft when I bought them) have some limitations, generally 30-40ft range fine.
Fosworks limitless range for my garden.
Deltang 20-30 foot range.
Tam Valley DTX022, had one of these visit my line and 20-30 foot range was range at best.
Playmobil 10-20 feet range at best.
 
Hi Gbrown,

I also have a ground level line of about 150m running smoothly on a Zimo DCC system for about 5 years now.
No electric connection problems any more since i started 4 years ago using copper grease fluid in all the rail-connections (and screws!).
I also started from then to change all the rail connections into the screw type of Massoth.
See my postings in here about my other experiences (and arguments :)
Not knowing your childrens age my question is: will there be small grandchildren playing on your layout?
If so my advice is to use Playmobil battery powered old toy trains. They are cheap to buy on the internet and extremely sturdy, easy to control with remote control, grandchildren love the small puppets and each loco has its own controller and color of the radio christal.
I rebuild the battery system into Lippo batteries using the USB charger. (See my postings in here)
Do not spoil your expensive LGB models to your grandchildren and their young friends, they can't handle them well.
As for running the trains yourself, a DCC system is great fun allowing you to manage all sorts of sounds and actions in the layout.
My choice for Zimo was completely governed by the fact that the owner of my nearby trainshop used the same system.
I really could not have done all the necessary work on settings and decoders on my own to get the system running without him in the background either on the phone or on short notice available in the shop or my garden.
So my prime advice to you is: find yourself a reliable professional experienced source as a guide and backup in case of technical problems.

Good luck!

Gerard
 
By the way, I have had several 5 year olds run trains just fine with my NCE system, and the Zimo system. Kids are much more interested in learning new stuff than people who bought something 20 years ago and hate any changes.

I switched to Zimo because it has modern features, and they are always adding more. Basically both the throttles and the command station are Linux computers with the RF and DCC track power as peripherals.

I don't let many children under 5 run trains, because it's not the comprehension, but they love to run too fast and hit stuff!
 
PhilP said:
Fred, that is fine IF your mobile phone supports a later iteration of Bluetooth..

Trying to use an old cast-off phone, won't get you much range.

I don't fully understand DCC. - A gifted(?) amateur.
But as a Communications Engineer, I can spot / point-out weaknesses in an overall 'system'.

PhilP
Click to expand...

You should have no problem getting 100-150 ft of range with Blunami. Any iOS device made since 2015 will work. You shouldn't get any lesser range with one device or another (that I'm aware of).

Although the newer Bluetooth5 chips can support longer ranges (up to 800 ft) it sucks up a lot more power to do that (which would not be battery friendly) so BlueRail stuck with bluetooth4 low energy for their modules. Don't confuse this with "classic bluetooth" (like speakers and earbuds) which is the "short range" version of bluetooth that people are generally familiar with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom