Need help with my ECR Loco battery charging

[Thomas Lambo]

Hello,

Being a long time RC hobbyist (Fast Electric boats and planes) I couldn’t resist purchasing ECR’s RC locomotive on E-bay.



It’s buzzing along now on a test track I set up while I complete my backyard Garden Railroad construction project (slated to go on line this summer).


So, I have a question for anyone that also owns this locomotive (marketed under several names as I understand it).


Question:

It’s been years since I used Ni-Cd battery chemistry. I’ve been using Lithium Polymer batteries exclusively so my recollection is very short with Ni-Cd batteries.


The battery included is labeled; Ni-Cd SC 1800 mAh at 7.2Volts.


It came from England with a 220 volt charger/plug that is useless to me as I don’t have 220 volt outlets in my USA home.


So I plan to use my 110 volt Thunder Power multi chemistry charger that handles Ni-Cd along with Life, Lipo and NiMh.


My changer recognizes it as an equivalent to a 5 cell Ni-Cd battery (about 1.4 volts per cell = 7.2 volts).


The settings I’m thinking about using on my charger would be: Cell size: 5S, CP: 1800 mAh, Amps: 0.25 (low and slow charging), Max charge: 7.2 volts.


Can anyone confirm my settings that's using something similar to my type of charger?


I want to be sure I don’t cook the battery by accident!


Thanks for any help

 

[Gizzy]

It's a standard 7.2V battery set up often used in RC cars I believe?

Might be worth checking if the charger runs on 100-240 Volts AC, then you could use a travel adapter...

 

[Railway42]

Hi Thomas you need a constant current charger for Ni-Cd battery for your battery 180 mA slow charge for 14 Hrs. The Battery should be discharged to 1.1 Volt per cell first then charged to 1.2 Volts. the Ni-Cd Battery has a memory so if you don't discharge first the Battery after a number of charges at say 50% will only take 50% even when fully discharged. NiMH don't have a memory so do not need discharging before a charge.

 

[Railway42]

I missed out if your battery is 7.2 volts it has 6 cells at 1.2 Volts per cell

 

[Thomas Lambo]

Thanks for the information.

Yes, it's a 7.2 volt battery and my charger is one of the best on the market. So you're saying it's definitely a 6 cell battery?

And I agree, discharging batteries with memories before re-charging is essential to good/prolonged battery life. This is what I routinely do with my Lipo batteries as well as being sure they never get stored prior to discharging.

 

[ebay mike]

I've had a few of these locos. When the battery pack died on one of them I made up a box out of plasticard and put 6 cheapo rechargeable AA cells in it. It's worked fine for over a year and I just put them in one of the wall socket rechargers to replenish when there's insufficient current left to move the loco.

 

[Thomas Lambo]

I've had a few of these locos. When the battery pack died on one of them I made up a box out of plasticard and put 6 cheapo rechargeable AA cells in it. It's worked fine for over a year and I just put them in one of the wall socket rechargers to replenish when there's insufficient current left to move the loco.

Nice, the instruction sheet that comes with the Loco actually shows an Option B for a power source (has a picture of AA batteries being used in place of the Ni-Cd).

Perhaps LiFe (Lithium Iron) batteries might be a good alternative as well...that seems to be the "go to" battery for Garden Railway RC setups. I've yet to invest in my RC solution, been looking at AirWire and RailBoss...but that's another subject for another day

 

[GAP]

Nice, the instruction sheet that comes with the Loco actually shows an Option B for a power source (has a picture of AA batteries being used in place of the Ni-Cd).

Perhaps LiFe (Lithium Iron) batteries might be a good alternative as well...that seems to be the "go to" battery for Garden Railway RC setups. I've yet to invest in my RC solution, been looking at AirWire and RailBoss...but that's another subject for another day

A 7.2V NiCd battery has 6 cells of 1.2V each.
Check and see if you your charger has a discharge/charge cycle function for NiCd that should overcome the memory effect, there is still a large amount of conjecture about memory effect it was concern with early technology NiCds but newer tech has effectively removed it, NiCds are still being used in some military aricraft.
Bit of light reading about it http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/memory_myth_or_fact

I have started replacing my NiMH batteries in large locos with LiPo Graphene technology batteries.
I buy them from a company called HobbyKing which is Hong Kong based but has warehouses in USA, UK and Aust as well as HK.

I charge all my batteries at 1/10C i.e. for a 4 Amp Hr battery I use a charge current of 0.4A the main advantage of the method is that the risk of explosion or a fire is greatly reduced (I am extremely risk averse) compared to a fast charge used by the aircraft guys.

For a drop in replacement in LiPo for your loco I would go with a 2S LiPo which will give 7.4V at full charge or alternatively a 2S LiFePO4 (a type of Li ion) battery giving 7.3V at full charge.

 

[Thomas Lambo]

Hi GAP,

Thanks for the confirmation on the Ni-Cd battery cell size.

Yes, my charger has full functionality (charging, discharging and the like). And I agree with your wise recommendation of using a lower charge current for safety reasons.

Funny, I've been buying batteries from Hobbyking for several years now using their US Warehouse (some of the lowest prices on the market).

As luck would have it, I've got a nice inventory of 2 cell Lipo batteries on hand as I use them in my FE SAW Cats

 

[GAP]

Hi GAP,

Thanks for the confirmation on the Ni-Cd battery cell size.

Yes, my charger has full functionality (charging, discharging and the like). And I agree with your wise recommendation of using a lower charge current for safety reasons.

Funny, I've been buying batteries from Hobbyking for several years now using their US Warehouse (some of the lowest prices on the market).

As luck would have it, I've got a nice inventory of 2 cell Lipo batteries on hand as I use them in my FE SAW Cats

I use HobbyKing (HK) for my all my R/C gear, receivers, servos ESCs etc.
My R/C locos have simple FWD and REV functions (a servo operated toggle switch) some have a simple sound card for diesel or steam, no bells or whistles as I find them just plain annoying. I like to run my trains while relaxing on the weekends.
My chargers are from HK as well and do all battery chemistries.
I also have 2 locos that I use robotics motor controllers because the cheap HK ESCs I use have a voltage limit of 12V, the FWD and REV on them is controlled from the transmitter stick position, Centre Neutral, Up FWD, Down REV the neutral position is set at switch on and is dependent on the stick position. These 2 locos are the ones being retrofitted with the Graphene batteries as the motor controllers can handle higher voltages and currents.

 

[dunnyrail]

There is a great deal of talk on here about Batteries. Without doubt I would trash the Ni-Cad's, in fact I am surprised that they are still functioning with any meaningful worth. My choice is NiMh partly because I do not trust some of the newer types as yet (personal thing plus Fire experience in Dreamliner Aircraft and other locations if the Charge Cycle is wrong, a risk that I am not prepared to take). No doubt these will come right or a better type be developed. But why I really like NiMh is because of the inherent Weight that they have, some of my Battery Conversions have involved removing LGB Weights to fit the Batteries so that the NiMh help to restore that loss. Plus I have found them to be pretty long lasting (in life), reliable and adequate run time if you get a good high Mah rated set. For charging a Smart Charger takes care of the NiMh so long as it is a sufficiently rated one and does not bother how many cells are in the Locomotive.
JonD

 

[Thomas Lambo]

I use HobbyKing (HK) for my all my R/C gear, receivers, servos ESCs etc.
My R/C locos have simple FWD and REV functions (a servo operated toggle switch) some have a simple sound card for diesel or steam, no bells or whistles as I find them just plain annoying. I like to run my trains while relaxing on the weekends.
My chargers are from HK as well and do all battery chemistries.
I also have 2 locos that I use robotics motor controllers because the cheap HK ESCs I use have a voltage limit of 12V, the FWD and REV on them is controlled from the transmitter stick position, Centre Neutral, Up FWD, Down REV the neutral position is set at switch on and is dependent on the stick position. These 2 locos are the ones being retrofitted with the Graphene batteries as the motor controllers can handle higher voltages and currents.

Great information to be sure.

So in effect you're not using the more expensive RC decoders supplied by many of the higher end manufacturers like Airwire, etc...basically setting up the equivalent with your own gear (home grown so to speak)?

Your setup seems similar to what I received from ECR, very basic but functional.

I suspect the use of a Ni-Cd battery in this Loco package is due to the low cost of the batteries, same is true of the charger. Costs needed to be kept low to make the package more affordable.

However, the little Loco is truly plug and play and moves along nicely. I think the value is good and I'll see how it holds up over the long haul. I plan to test it in the back yard soon...see how it handles a 3% to 4% grade.


I'll be posting several more threads regarding Loco battery conversions and other RC related topics....I'd appreciate your input

Thanks again for your help

 

[Thomas Lambo]

There is a great deal of talk on here about Batteries. Without doubt I would trash the Ni-Cad's, in fact I am surprised that they are still functioning with any meaningful worth. My choice is NiMh partly because I do not trust some of the newer types as yet (personal thing plus Fire experience in Dreamliner Aircraft and other locations if the Charge Cycle is wrong, a risk that I am not prepared to take). No doubt these will come right or a better type be developed. But why I really like NiMh is because of the inherent Weight that they have, some of my Battery Conversions have involved removing LGB Weights to fit the Batteries so that the NiMh help to restore that loss. Plus I have found them to be pretty long lasting (in life), reliable and adequate run time if you get a good high Mah rated set. For charging a Smart Charger takes care of the NiMh so long as it is a sufficiently rated one and does not bother how many cells are in the Locomotive.
JonD

Thanks for your input Jon.

I agree, I'll use the Ni-Cd battery until it dies...then off to better chemistry.

I can appreciate your concerns about newer technology like Lipo batteries. However, I've been using Lipo batteries in all my FE Boats and Airplanes for quite some time using strict safeguards. As such, I've never had any problems as result of sticking to my protocols. On the other hand, I've seen others cause fires as a result of careless use of Lipo technology. This mostly takes place in racing venues where all the equipment is pushed to it's extreme maximum Limits!

 

[a98087]

Sounds like your avery knowledgable about all the different types of battery packs.
And I agree with what others said, use the nicad until it's dead, then swap for whatever is your chosen battery pack.

For rc conversion questions ask away, there's a few battery users on here, and I've done my own conversions using hobby king gear, lip battery's and aircraft ESC

Dan

 

[GAP]

Just so I get what loco we are talking about, is it one of these?


If so I have done a battery R/C conversion using a HobbyKing R/C Transmitter/Receiver with servo operated direction switch combo with NiMh batteries already.

Good inexpensive introduction loco and one I trot out whenever kids (read 5YO or around that age) want to see a train run, I even let them run it because if they crash/break it I will not cry.

Not my pride and joy but well ...... I do have plans in the future, after retirement which is looming over the horizon fast, to bash it to hell and back maybe as a Garret using Stainz motion work, (I have 2 Stainz sitting in the cupboard that are also looking for a bashing session possibly as Aust sugar cane locos but who knows).

Thomas L, or any one else interested for that matter, if you want any info about what I did to add cheap R/C to one of these just contact me via conversations.

 

[Thomas Lambo]

GAP, You bet, same Loco, I just didn't hit the "full size" option for the picture I included in my first post (see above now). And I'l be in contact soon about "Home Grown" RC solutions/conversions.


Thanks again for everyone's help...and FYI, I've almost completed an evaluation on Rail Boss and Air Wire RC systems and will post my findings soon. Very interesting on how both approach the RC solution.

Food for thought...how about developing a standalone RC turnout system (servo and push rod, receiver and small LiFe bat) inside a little water proof shack. Controlled from your transmitter

 

[ntpntpntp]

Food for thought...how about developing a standalone RC turnout system (servo and push rod, receiver and small LiFe bat) inside a little water proof shack. Controlled from your transmitter

I have a set with one of these locos, a useful cheap and cheerful thing! I've always wondered/assumed that the "bifurcation" buttons on the transmitter might be intended for turnout control, though I've never seen any mention of a receiver or switch machine for the plastic track system.

I tend to turn the "music" (ie. sound) off after a while! I do like the handy button in the cab that lets you leave the thing running round on it's own with the transmitter off, while you get on with other work in the garden.

 

[spoz]

While these are, as others have described. useful cheap locos, they do have some drawbacks. See https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/fuming-newqida-2-6-2t.298553/ for an example....(and it was no April Fools Day joke!)

 

[Thomas Lambo]

While these are, as others have described. useful cheap locos, they do have some drawbacks. See https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/fuming-newqida-2-6-2t.298553/ for an example....(and it was no April Fools Day joke!)

So it appears, and thanks for the link and information. I'll keep a close eye on the little fellow

 

[rak11]

I have started replacing my NiMH batteries in large locos with LiPo Graphene technology batteries.
I buy them from a company called HobbyKing which is Hong Kong based but has warehouses in USA, UK and Aust as well as HK.

I charge all my batteries at 1/10C i.e. for a 4 Amp Hr battery I use a charge current of 0.4A the main advantage of the method is that the risk of explosion or a fire is greatly reduced (I am extremely risk averse) compared to a fast charge used by the aircraft guys.

For a drop in replacement in LiPo for your loco I would go with a 2S LiPo which will give 7.4V at full charge or alternatively a 2S LiFePO4 (a type of Li ion) battery giving 7.3V at full charge.

How are you satisfied with your graphene batteries on the long run? Graphene is pretty amazing electrical conductor (more info here) so using it for batteries is a no-brainer. However the technology is still really fresh. What is your overall impression?