NCE 10 amp wireless PH-10R question

[Tim Brien]

A simple question for any that have the NCE 10 amp DCC system. I have a LGB loco with factory 'serial' digital sound to which I fitted a Massoth 'L' decoder (direct decoder installation). I activated CV 49 to accept serial and parallel data transfer plus fast serial pulse strings. The sound on the loco responded to function key number inputs when using my Piko/Massoth setup.

Now with my replacement NCE setup, when triggering sounds, the cab only accepts serial inputs, much like the early MTS. To activate sound function '5' for instance, button '1' must be pressed five times. I believe the NCE system will accept only parallel input. Can a NCE user advise if there is a work around to get the cab to accept fast serial pulse strings and enable cab button input to trigger sounds? My LGB #65001 sound decoder responds to the cab button inputs when triggering sounds.

 

[ntpntpntp]

Hi Tim,
I have NCE 10 amp gear (not wireless though).

I thought the idea of using something like a Massoth L decoder would mean that the NCE system can send the usual NRMA function key commands and the decoder will translate these into serial pulses and forward these to the old sound system in the loco?

As far as I know there's nothing in an NCE system to make it translate button presses to serial pulses. The serial pulse chain method seems to have been an LGB specific thing (or perhaps an early Lenz thing as Lenz made MTS 1 I think?) that Massoth have continued to support in their systems but not much else will understand it other than you manually pressing the button multiple times.

 

[Tim Brien]

Nick,
the setup worked fine on the Piko (Massoth) software. I think that NCE does not understand fast serial pulse strings or is strictly parallel operation only.

The wireless is, fortunately, legal for Australia and seems to be as good as the Piko/Massoth usability. I hate the ergonomics of the NCE cab (I was spoiled by the Navigator), but will live with it (at least I am not tethered to a base unit). I believe that this loco wil be the only LGB serial factory sound loco that I will own, so the ancient multiple number '1' presses to get sound will not be too much a chore (disappointing though). My others have either later parallel sound units, #6500X series digital sound units or will be fitted with Massoth motor/sound decoders.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I think that NCE does not understand fast serial pulse strings or is strictly parallel operation only.

No, because the repeated serial pulses are not an NMRA DCC thing as far as I know. That's why my understanding is that the better approach is to have the loco decoder translate and generate the pulses and send these on to the sound chip. That's what I thought the Massoth decoder would do for you (some Zimo decoders also support this translation I believe). Having the decoder do the translation should make the loco sounds behave correctly on any DCC system. There should be no need to send any serial/repeated F1 commands from the central station to the decoder (but maybe that's what Massoth, LGB and Piko do to get round the problem and ensure backward compatability with the older MTS fitted locos).

Maybe we need someone else to chime in here, who has direct experience of adding a Massoth decoder to an LGB loco with old serial sound? (start a new thread perhaps?)

I'll admit I don't have an LGB loco with the same "serial only" limitations: the oldest I have is factory fitted DCC & sound in a Mikado and this responds fine to all function commands from the NCE cab.

I hate the ergonomics of the NCE cab (I was spoiled by the Navigator), but will live with it (at least I am not tethered to a base unit).

Really? Depends what you're used to I suppose. Having tried a Navigator, I much prefer the NCE cab. But I am jealous of the wireless.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I activated CV 49 to accept serial and parallel data transfer plus fast serial pulse strings.

OK, so you set CV49 to be 9, or maybe even 15 if you wanted the analogue and dcc load control both on?

<edit> Did I read in another thread you set CV49 = 11? That's fine, just means that digital load control is on but analogue load control is off. </edit>

That should do it if I read the Massoth config manual correctly. It seems to say CV49 bit 3 if "on" (along with bit 0) will cause the decoder to send fast serial pulses out the A1 pin instead of using it as a normal on/off function pin. Now, I also interpret/assume that to mean the decoder can translate NMRA function commands to fast serial pulses, but maybe I'm assuming too much? That's what I thought it did for you, so please someone tell me if I've got the wrong of the stick here (in which case sorry Tim for bad info)? Maybe it just means that it can forward serial pulse chains sent by the command station through the A1 pin?

As I say, need someone else who's actually done this to add their thoughts?

 

[ntpntpntp]

Now I'm at home I can have a better look around. I found this forum discussion from a few years ago
http://massoth.gotdns.com/forumen/viewtopic.php?t=82

Seems to be confirming my understanding that the decoder itself can generate the serial pulse train, BUT they're saying that because it generates the "P-update" fast pulse train, the sound chip in the loco must be one which also understands "P-update". Old factory sound chips don't, and need to be upgraded by returning to Massoth?

Maybe yours is pre "P-update", therefore the only way it will trigger is through the slower "manual" button pressing or a slower pulse train generated by an LGB/Massoth command station?

 

[Tim Brien]

Nick,
excellent link on the Massoth forum. It confirms my thoughts that the NCE is not serial capable, quote: "......and/or (2) you are using a non-LGB and non-Massoth central station that cannot generate the serial commands." My sound loco dates from late 2000/2001.

My serial sound loco worked on the Piko/Massoth system as it understands serial fast pulse string signals. Also, with the NCE, my loco performs as per one mentioned in the forum, i.e., horn sound on odd numbered function keys. Looks like multiple singular F1 key inputs to operate sound on this locomotive.

PS. Further to above, suprisingly, the half speed shunting function (normally F8 on Massoth chips) works on the F3 function button to which I assigned it (#8 button was sound on/off, so I left that button for this function).