My Hudswell 040 shunter scratch build

[Alan McLennan]

As I had mentioned in my newbie post I have been building a scratch built Hudswell battery powered, and I now know how
to post my pic's on here LOL, anyhow, it's made from brass sheet upper with steel chassis. I am about to scrap my drive line
as I don't think it will preform well enough, so I'm on the hunt for better ideas on here, so here it is so far.. trouble is I did take photos until I was well into it.

 

[dunnyrail]

As I had mentioned in my newbie post I have been building a scratch built Hudswell battery powered, and I now know how
to post my pic's on here LOL, anyhow, it's made from brass sheet upper with steel chassis. I am about to scrap my drive line
as I don't think it will preform well enough, so I'm on the hunt for better ideas on here, so here it is so far.. trouble is I did take photos until I was well into it.

Be more cost but a JH from MSC geared motor will give you all you could ask for.

Motor & Gearboxes — MSC Models

www.mscmodels.co.uk

 

[MalOz_1957]

As I had mentioned in my newbie post I have been building a scratch built Hudswell battery powered, and I now know how
to post my pic's on here LOL, anyhow, it's made from brass sheet upper with steel chassis. I am about to scrap my drive line
as I don't think it will preform well enough, so I'm on the hunt for better ideas on here, so here it is so far.. trouble is I did take photos until I was well into it.

A newbie at what ??? Not building brass and steel loco's that for sure

Nice one mate....

Come to think of it, now seeing your loco, that motor I mentioned in my thread probably won't have the torque for your loco and any rolling stock you might drag behind it. The loco itself looks heavy....

 

[JimmyB]

Interesting motor configuration!!

 

[Rhinochugger]

As I had mentioned in my newbie post I have been building a scratch built Hudswell battery powered, and I now know how
to post my pic's on here LOL, anyhow, it's made from brass sheet upper with steel chassis. I am about to scrap my drive line
as I don't think it will preform well enough, so I'm on the hunt for better ideas on here, so here it is so far.. trouble is I did take photos until I was well into it.

G scale drive trains for scratch builders are a bit of a nightmare - especially for people like me who don't have, and don't know how to use, a lathe.

I resorted to using the MSC Gauge 1 motor/gearbox combo as indicated by Jon dunnyrail and that performs well.

I scratchbuilt a 2-6-2 steam outline loco, and purchased a Buhler 7-pole motor which I sent off to ABC gears for one of their gearboxes which, again, performs well. ABC are slightly more expensive than MSC

Single worm drives just don't work in our scale - which is why the loco with the MSC motor/gearbox has the name plate 'Yeti' - as in yetinother gearbox I think the MSC version is number five. The only previous one that worked reliably was something that I had cobbled together from spare parts when I was out of work - it worked, but the gearing was too high to pull anything but a couple of wagons

Elsewhere, I've resorted to buying a chassis from Essel Engineering, one of the smaller, specialist suppliers here in the UK, for a couple of 0-4-0 chassis.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Come to think of it, now seeing your loco, that motor I mentioned in my thread probably won't have the torque for your loco and any rolling stock you might drag behind it. The loco itself looks heavy....

By the time you get some batteries in there, you should have something that will work fairly well - the gear head motors are a good solution. My two locos with Essel Engineering chassis both have Como gear head motors.

 

[Alan McLennan]

G scale drive trains for scratch builders are a bit of a nightmare - especially for people like me who don't have, and don't know how to use, a lathe.

I resorted to using the MSC Gauge 1 motor/gearbox combo as indicated by Jon dunnyrail and that performs well.

I scratchbuilt a 2-6-2 steam outline loco, and purchased a Buhler 7-pole motor which I sent off to ABC gears for one of their gearboxes which, again, performs well. ABC are slightly more expensive than MSC

Single worm drives just don't work in our scale - which is why the loco with the MSC motor/gearbox has the name plate 'Yeti' - as in yetinother gearbox I think the MSC version is number five. The only previous one that worked reliably was something that I had cobbled together from spare parts when I was out of work - it worked, but the gearing was too high to pull anything but a couple of wagons

Elsewhere, I've resorted to buying a chassis from Essel Engineering, one of the smaller, specialist suppliers here in the UK, for a couple of 0-4-0 chassis.

Thanks for that , I will look up all your ideas, mine at the moment uses, well has installed a rear diff from a 1/10th scale rock crawler and motor, which I had laying around.

 

[Alan McLennan]

A newbie at what ??? Not building brass and steel loco's that for sure

Nice one mate....

Come to think of it, now seeing your loco, that motor I mentioned in my thread probably won't have the torque for your loco and any rolling stock you might drag behind it. The loco itself looks heavy....

Heavy ?, I call it traction control and well grounded. It does roll very easily tho. I have ordered a geared motor, a bit quicker than the one you said, so I'll see how that goes and I'll check out what you replied mate thanks.

 

[Alan McLennan]

Interesting motor configuration!!

Yeah Jimmy, I was trying to use what I had, RC car diff and 35T motor with universal drive shaft and cog belt drive, it does go... sort of ! LOL

 

[Alan McLennan]

By the time you get some batteries in there, you should have something that will work fairly well - the gear head motors are a good solution. My two locos with Essel Engineering chassis both have Como gear head motors.

I was planning on using a 2S lipo battery, but it really needs to be pulled out to be charged, which could be a real pain. I was looking at a USA trains motor block, same axle spacing, do you know anything about them ?

 

[MalOz_1957]

G scale drive trains for scratch builders are a bit of a nightmare - especially for people like me who don't have, and don't know how to use, a lathe.

I resorted to using the MSC Gauge 1 motor/gearbox combo as indicated by Jon dunnyrail and that performs well.

I scratchbuilt a 2-6-2 steam outline loco, and purchased a Buhler 7-pole motor which I sent off to ABC gears for one of their gearboxes which, again, performs well. ABC are slightly more expensive than MSC

Single worm drives just don't work in our scale - which is why the loco with the MSC motor/gearbox has the name plate 'Yeti' - as in yetinother gearbox I think the MSC version is number five. The only previous one that worked reliably was something that I had cobbled together from spare parts when I was out of work - it worked, but the gearing was too high to pull anything but a couple of wagons

Elsewhere, I've resorted to buying a chassis from Essel Engineering, one of the smaller, specialist suppliers here in the UK, for a couple of 0-4-0 chassis.

That’s excellent insight re the motors/gearboxes. Thanks.
I looked at the Essel website; they seem to favour bevel drives. Does this suggest bevel drive is more efficient and useful than worm drives for the same motor?
As you said i am beginning to agree worm drive is not the best solution for larger locos. TIA

 

[Cobalt6700]

I was planning on using a 2S lipo battery, but it really needs to be pulled out to be charged, which could be a real pain. I was looking at a USA trains motor block, same axle spacing, do you know anything about them ?

I have Li-Ion packs in my shunters that I charge in the loco - I added a battery protection board to keep them balanced and safe.

Seriously cool loco - nice work! I think I'm going to have to fire the mill up again one day.

 

[Cobalt6700]

That’s excellent insight re the motors/gearboxes. Thanks.
I looked at the Essel website; they seem to favour bevel drives. Does this suggest bevel drive is more efficient and useful than worm drives for the same motor?
As you said i am beginning to agree worm drive is not the best solution for larger locos. TIA

From and engineering point of view I don't see an issue with worm drive - in fact I believe most, if not all, manufactured G-Scale locos from the likes of LGB, PIKO, Aristo, Bachmann, etc.. all run worm drive.
You also gain the benefit of a passive brake - a worm drive will resist driving from the worm wheel back through the worm. You do not get this benefit with a bevel.
The thing that makes the difference is the motor selection and the gearing. The Buhler motors used in G-Scale are specifically designed / wound for that voltage and RPM (nothing to stop you using any motor and gearing it down though).

In fact, I would consider that getting the gearing on a bevel to work well is much harder than a worm drive.

In regards to dual worm, the only ways I can see of getting that to work are either a motor with a long shaft each end specifically designed for dual worms, or some kind of driveshaft setup with two worms and a connection to a motor, either gear / pulley / direct.

 

[Rhinochugger]

That’s excellent insight re the motors/gearboxes. Thanks.
I looked at the Essel website; they seem to favour bevel drives. Does this suggest bevel drive is more efficient and useful than worm drives for the same motor?
As you said i am beginning to agree worm drive is not the best solution for larger locos. TIA

I don't think so - bevel drive is the simplest form of 1:1 ratio when all the reductions gears are in the head of the motor

One of the Essel chassis that I have was a special adaption of the standard chassis that Stephen did for me - the axle centres are slightly different to suit the loco (the diesel shunter that PhilP cruelly describes as a hovercraft ) the nearer of the two locos in the photo.

The other one has the standard Essel chassis that is the replacement for the Bachmann 0-4-0 Baldwin (it has a body kit that was also a replacement for the Bachmann 0-4-0 Baldwin )

 

[Rhinochugger]

From and engineering point of view I don't see an issue with worm drive - in fact I believe most, if not all, manufactured G-Scale locos from the likes of LGB, PIKO, Aristo, Bachmann, etc.. all run worm drive.
You also gain the benefit of a passive brake - a worm drive will resist driving from the worm wheel back through the worm. You do not get this benefit with a bevel.
The thing that makes the difference is the motor selection and the gearing. The Buhler motors used in G-Scale are specifically designed / wound for that voltage and RPM (nothing to stop you using any motor and gearing it down though).

In fact, I would consider that getting the gearing on a bevel to work well is much harder than a worm drive.

In regards to dual worm, the only ways I can see of getting that to work are either a motor with a long shaft each end specifically designed for dual worms, or some kind of driveshaft setup with two worms and a connection to a motor, either gear / pulley / direct.

My original comment was a single worm drive - i.e. without any secondary idler gears.

But, any worm drive will not give a passive brake, it will stop dead if there is a dead spot, thus adding strain to the drive train - which is why I have been adding flywheels to a couple of Bachmann locos

There are plenty of other motor types used in G scale locos apart from Buhler - yes, LGB use Buhler exclusively, but other manufacturers use other motors such as Pittman and Mabuchi

 

[Rhinochugger]

Thanks for that , I will look up all your ideas, mine at the moment uses, well has installed a rear diff from a 1/10th scale rock crawler and motor, which I had laying around.

I would test it before you change it

 

[dunnyrail]

I was planning on using a 2S lipo battery, but it really needs to be pulled out to be charged, which could be a real pain. I was looking at a USA trains motor block, same axle spacing, do you know anything about them ?

I use USA Motor Trucks sourced in UK from GRS in Princess Risborough, not the cheapest bogies around but they perform very well. Look at some of my build projects where I use them. Only issue with your Hudswell you will need to be quite inventive to fit the Connecting rods and flycrancs. But the wheels on the USA bogies do have thin extended axles so you may be able to adapt.

Thread 'Battery Railcar using Peter Spoerer (Fosworks) kit'

16 Jan 2018

I inherited a couple of Railcars when Andy Rush died in 2013, one a Diesel one that was Track Powered with a Massoth Sound Chip in it. Phots of this machine have appeared in the Forum before. The second was the Prototype of what was to be a short run of Overhead Electric Railcars. This was basically a Body Shell converted from a Newquida Coach and a couple of I think USA Trains Power Bogies, Roof Flat pre cut plus a GRS Roof Profile to sit on top. On the Dunnybahn it will be a Diesel Railcar and to that end I ordered last week from Steve who now has taken over from Peter Spoerer the bits...

• dunnyrail
• Replies: 54
• Forum: Battery Power

• 

 

[Alan McLennan]

I use USA Motor Trucks sourced in UK from GRS in Princess Risborough, not the cheapest bogies around but they perform very well. Look at some of my build projects where I use them. Only issue with your Hudswell you will need to be quite inventive to fit the Connecting rods and flycrancs. But the wheels on the USA bogies do have thin extended axles so you may be able to adapt.

Thread 'Battery Railcar using Peter Spoerer (Fosworks) kit'

16 Jan 2018

I inherited a couple of Railcars when Andy Rush died in 2013, one a Diesel one that was Track Powered with a Massoth Sound Chip in it. Phots of this machine have appeared in the Forum before. The second was the Prototype of what was to be a short run of Overhead Electric Railcars. This was basically a Body Shell converted from a Newquida Coach and a couple of I think USA Trains Power Bogies, Roof Flat pre cut plus a GRS Roof Profile to sit on top. On the Dunnybahn it will be a Diesel Railcar and to that end I ordered last week from Steve who now has taken over from Peter Spoerer the bits...

• dunnyrail
• Replies: 54
• Forum: Battery Power

• 

Yeah those USA trucks are $149 here and thats mainly why I thought I'd try doing my own, but the stress of getting it done plus other projects like my track, keep wanting to draw me away
I think the geared motors with bevel gears maybe the answer, well at least cheaper anyways . I'll check out your builds in the mean time, Thanks.

 

[Alan McLennan]

I would test it before you change it

Yeah I think I will give it a chance, the main problem I see with it now is it is capable of high speeds.. Do they have drag race locomotives ? LOL

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yeah I think I will give it a chance, the main problem I see with it now is it is capable of high speeds.. Do they have drag race locomotives ? LOL

Yup, gearing is an important issue. We're heading towards matters outside of my pay grade, but electric motors are happier when they're spinning freely - they're not good at bottom end grunt. This is why gearing is important in model railway terms; it's not just about speed.

In G scale, some of our trains can be weighty

I can understand the mechanical bit, but with some of the electrical theory I can only repeat what I've been told