MFX decoder sound on analogue power...?

[Zerogee]

Hi Jon and Martin,

Unfortunately, I don't have one of these Borsig models. It is clear to me now from what you have explained that this is a decoder problem specific to the 20752 Borsig. I wonder if swapping out the decoder is the only (rather expensive) option to get analog sound?

In any case, I want to thank you again for bringing up the question. It has truly been a valuable learning experience for me exploring the issue!

And with that, I'll hit the mute button on my contributions to this thread.

Thanks Phil, your contributions to the discussion have been very useful and will certainly be relevant to any other loco models equipped with MFX decoders - glad that the thread has brought up some points which have allowed us all to learn some new things...!

For the time being, at least, Kleine Dicke will remain in my loco stable where it will happily run (with full sound) on my DCC system.

Jon.

 

[MTheStrong]

Hi Jon and Martin,

Unfortunately, I don't have one of these Borsig models. It is clear to me now from what you have explained that this is a decoder problem specific to the 20752 Borsig. I wonder if swapping out the decoder is the only (rather expensive) option to get analog sound?

In any case, I want to thank you again for bringing up the question. It has truly been a valuable learning experience for me exploring the issue!

And with that, I'll hit the mute button on my contributions to this thread.

Hi Phil's,

Many thanks for your contributions. I believe that it is a decoder specific problem. My Maerklin CS2 is able to read and write to my other locos fitted with a Mfx decoder. I think that we have nearly exhausted the options. After all the locos run using Mfx, DCC and DC. Sound is not available in DC mode.

Regards

Martin

 

[LGB333]

Hi Phil's,

Many thanks for your contributions. I believe that it is a decoder specific problem. My Maerklin CS2 is able to read and write to my other locos fitted with a Mfx decoder. I think that we have nearly exhausted the options. After all the locos run using Mfx, DCC and DC. Sound is not available in DC mode.

Regards

Martin

Folks - I just read this 2020 long thread..........very interesting stuff about LGB/Marklin mfx/dcc/dc multi-technology decoders but no solution has been posted! Did anyone contact LGB/Marklin to see how to program the decoder for sound when operating in analog mode? I have the LGB 28443 RhB 50th Anniversary Locomotive and the User Guide specifically states: The built-in sound functions come from the factory inactive for analog operation. And there's no guidance how to program the decoder to activate sound for analog operation. At the time another hobbyist told me that a mfx capable command station is required to activate the sound for analog but I wasn't able to confirm it. And since I didn't want to operate my loco in analog I didn't bother to sort it out with Marklin Germany. Now Marklin produces all LGB locomotives with mfx/dcc/dc sound decoders from the factory with analog-capable sound.

 

[idlemarvel]

I can't confirm this as I don't have an mfx fitted loco but I understand the way to enable sounds in DC mode is first to make sure DC is in the list of protocols supported in CV 50 (bit 1) then make sure the F-key for sound is turned on in DC mode. That is set in CV13 for function keys 1-8 and CV14 for function key 0 (light key) and 9-15. So if F6 is used to set the sound on then setting CV13 bit 6 should turn the sound on DC mode.

 

[Zerogee]

Folks - I just read this 2020 long thread..........very interesting stuff about LGB/Marklin mfx/dcc/dc multi-technology decoders but no solution has been posted! Did anyone contact LGB/Marklin to see how to program the decoder for sound when operating in analog mode? I have the LGB 28443 RhB 50th Anniversary Locomotive and the User Guide specifically states: The built-in sound functions come from the factory inactive for analog operation. And there's no guidance how to program the decoder to activate sound for analog operation. At the time another hobbyist told me that a mfx capable command station is required to activate the sound for analog but I wasn't able to confirm it. And since I didn't want to operate my loco in analog I didn't bother to sort it out with Marklin Germany. Now Marklin produces all LGB locomotives with mfx/dcc/dc sound decoders from the factory with analog-capable sound.

Tom, the eventual consensus of opinions on the thread was that in the case of the particular loco in question (the "budget" MFX version of the Borsig 0-4-0) there was no way of activating the sounds on analogue - no solution was arrived at because there doesn't appear to be one; we never did determine whether it was because the decoders used in that model were a partly-faulty batch that M/LGB were using up, hence the relatively low price of the model, or whether there was another reason for it behaving the way it does.

This particular situation appears to ONLY affect this specific model, and not any other MFX-equipped locos.

Jon.

 

[phils2um]

Hi Tom,
Go back to my post #10. As Dave had reiterated, CVs 13 and 14 control what functions are active in analog operation with Märklin mfx decoders used in LGB models. These CVs are bitwise switches that work just like CV29. The values 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 128 will turn on bits 1 through 8 respectively. Multiple functions are turned on by adding together the values for the appropriate bits. CV 13 controls F1 through F8. CV 14 controls the lights and F9 through F15.

Just be aware there may be specific models where not all functions are available despite the settings on CVs 13 and 14 such as the Borsig lok that started this thread.

See the attached list of CVs for the latest 32 function, 27-pin mfx decoders. Earlier MLGB mfx decoders use the same two CVs, CV13 and CV14, to enable analog functions. They were misleadingly named "Function F1-F8 with alternative track signal" and "Function FL, F9-F15 with alternative track signal" in the english translation. The "alternative track signal" is analog track power.

I apologize for the poor scan quality.

Edit added: You will probably need to enable both the "sound" and the "running sounds" functions to get what you want.

Another edit added: Remember, you must run the loco on a DCC system first if you want to modify CVs using a DCC (non mfx) central station or programmer. Otherwise the decoder will not respond or will respond with garbage. Once the CVs are modified the changes are in effect for all modes of operation, mfx, DCC, and analog.

Third edit added: CV63 is the CV for total volume in both the new and older MLGB mfx decoders. You will likely need to play with this if there is no volume potentiometer on the loco. The range is 0-255 with a default of 255 (full volume). Just to give some idea, I run my locos outdoors with a setting between 150 and 180 depending on the particular model. Full volume is way too much in my opinion.

 

[phils2um]

Did some editing of my previous post to hopefully clarify!

 

[LGB333]

Did some editing of my previous post to hopefully clarify!

Thanks Phil etal for your responses about these tricky LGB/Marklin mfx/dcc/analog decoders. I don't run my trains in analog but this information is good to know since I'm now an LGB Dealer and analog hobbyists may ask for my help. By the way, the latest decoder they're now installing in LGB locomotives, such as the new LGB 28446 RhB Glacier Express, now have additional operating technologies embedded, such as AC Analog, which make them even more complex and potentially challenging for us normal DCC or Analog operators.

In theory, you and others are probably correct that the specific decoder can't operate with sound in analog mode, but this can be confirmed by contacting the LGB Technical Office in Germany.

 

[The Shed]

By the way, the latest decoder they're now installing in LGB locomotives, such as the new LGB 28446 RhB Glacier Express, now have additional operating technologies embedded, such as AC Analog, which make them even more complex and potentially challenging for us normal DCC or Analog operators.

Firmware for Märklin 55029 Decoder
Analog: AC, DC
Digital: MM, DCC, MFX

Version: 3.2.0.3 (December 06, 2018): First delivery status

Version: 3.2.2.2 (November 18, 2020): Present day

 

[Zerogee]

By way of a post-script to this thread, at the P'boro show yesterday I had an interesting conversation with someone who has actually spoken directly to somebody on the technical side at M/LGB about this issue with the 20752 Borsig - apparently there was a certain amount of "don't quote me on this, but..." during the conversation, which is why I'm being a little bit cryptic and not naming the parties involved - so please take this information as coming from, as the media would say, "a well-informed source"...

Apparently our speculation earlier in this thread is, basically, correct. M/LGB somehow ended up with a whole batch of MFX decoders that were PARTIALLY faulty, in that one part of the chip was not functioning as it should, but all the rest of it worked fine (a bit of a "Curate's Egg" situation).
This fault resulted in the situation we've been discussing - that the chips work perfectly OK as driving decoders on all protocols (MFX/DCC/DC), but the SOUND facility will only work on MFX/DCC and not on DC. Certain CVs that affect the DC operation can be read, but CANNOT be altered.

Rather than bin the entire batch of decoders, M/LGB decided to use them in a single production run of "budget Borsigs" (apparently some were used in certain Trix locos too), and sell them at a MUCH lower price than they would normally charge for an MFX-chipped sound-equipped loco.
It is important to stress that at no time was there any misdirection or misinformation given out to buyers - M/LGB have always stated from the start that this particular catalogue number item did NOT have sound functions when run on analogue DC, so they've been 100% upfront about it throughout.

So, I think we've got the definitive answer, and I'm happy with that - this specific model (LGB 20752) is confirmed to be a budget-priced "special" that will run on MFX or DCC with full sound, and will run on DC but without the sound. Other newer versions of the same loco model with different catalogue numbers, such as the more recently listed version at a much higher price, have standard and fully-functioning MFX decoders which have sound available on DC.

Jon.

 

[R. Wolfe]

I know I am a little late but Jon, my 20752 is exactly as yours is. Sound will work when switched from DCC to analogg for a short time then stops. This is normal for this locomotive. I had no problem changing CV 50 with my Massoth equipment. I even did some remapping of the functions and changed some volume CV's plus took out a little momentum with no problem. Great running little loco and the MFX decoder has extremely smooth running characteristics.

 

[LGB333]

I know I am a little late but Jon, my 20752 is exactly as yours is. Sound will work when switched from DCC to analogg for a short time then stops. This is normal for this locomotive. I had no problem changing CV 50 with my Massoth equipment. I even did some remapping of the functions and changed some volume CV's plus took out a little momentum with no problem. Great running little loco and the MFX decoder has extremely smooth running characteristics.

It's interesting you are able to remap F Key functions using your Massoth DCC system.......please explain how you did it. It's my understanding to do that requires use of a Marklin CS3/3+, or a Marklin 60971 Decoder Programmer, or a Marklin 60657 Mobile Station mfx/dcc Command Station. I'd be interested in how you were able to remap the F Key sounds.

​

 

[R. Wolfe]

It has been a while since I did it but if I remember correctly, you have to change multiple (I think it's 3) CV's for each function. Just follow the Function Mapping listed in the Manual for the particular locomotive. I also purchased a 20753 which is similar but with a different cab # then the 20752. The 20753 does have a few different default CV settings. CV50 is different now. I am just going off of memory but I think they also added a Motorola protocall as well which changes the values of 50.