Massoth uncouplers on MFX factory decoder, no outputs left to connect.

[palmerston]

On my new LGB 22062 RhB Ge 6/6 II i want to fit Massoth's uncouplers as soon as they are available again. (Same applies to the LGB 22040 RhB Ge 4/4 I which i hope to get sometime in the future))

The factory dekoder has 6 outputs which are all in use by the loco's lighting system.

• AUX 1-2-3-4 white and red lights (normal A, shunting lights, red tail, 1 single white rear so called Swiss lighting)
• AUX 5&6 cab lighting

This is not to be found in the loco's manual Controllable Functions list which (once again!) is faulty. Found this by downloading the data for a mSD3 dekoder project for the 22062 loco. Can be viewed with the MDecoderTool3 software without a physical CS3 or Marklin Programmer 60971. Susi is used to operated the phantographs, F15 and 16.

So no outputs left. Anyone know a method (not with DCC adressing) maybe via SUSI with at leasts 2 outputs to drive the couplers?

 

[LGB333]

On my new LGB 22062 RhB Ge 6/6 II i want to fit Massoth's uncouplers as soon as they are available again. (Same applies to the LGB 22040 RhB Ge 4/4 I which i hope to get sometime in the future))

The factory dekoder has 6 outputs which are all in use by the loco's lighting system.

• AUX 1-2-3-4 white and red lights (normal A, shunting lights, red tail, 1 single white rear so called Swiss lighting)
• AUX 5&6 cab lighting

This is not to be found in the loco's manual Controllable Functions list which (once again!) is faulty. Found this by downloading the data for a mSD3 dekoder project for the 22062 loco. Can be viewed with the MDecoderTool3 software without a physical CS3 or Marklin Programmer 60971. Susi is used to operated the phantographs, F15 and 16.

So no outputs left. Anyone know a method (not with DCC adressing) maybe via SUSI with at leasts 2 outputs to drive the couplers?

Hello to the Land of Netherlands! I'd be pleased to assist you with a solution. You don't mention the brand, but I assume you're planning to install the Massoth Auto Uncouplers. Therefore, you only need to separately install inside the shell of your locomotive a Massoth 8152601 eMotion 10FX Function Decoder. You only need to connect the brown and white wires to your locomotive's track power........wire it directly to the motor block's track power input wires, not to the locomotive's MSD3 mfx/dcc decoder. These are great little devices for powering and controlling through your DCC system the output terminals for Massoth Auto Uncouplers, lights, smokers, and servos. There are two 3-pin sockets on the top for connecting one or two Auto Uncouplers. You'll activate all the connected devices by F Keys on your DCC Throttle. They're listed on my Website shown below for $50 each. I've attached the decoder's Installation Guide. I installed one of these recently into a customer's LGB Uintah Caboose including the LGB Ball Bearing Wheels for power, for activating the Massoth LED light strips for the interior and LED bulbs for the rear running lights that I installed. If you have any questions you can also email me at: Olddominionrailways@gmail.com

 

[palmerston]

Hello to the Land of Netherlands! I'd be pleased to assist you with a solution. You don't mention the brand, but I assume you're planning to install the Massoth Auto Uncouplers.

Thank you for the effort to answers. ......But i do mention Massoth both in the topic title as in the post.

As i wrote in the topic, i dont want another DCC adres. So a DCC funktiondecoder is not what i need.

 

[LGB333]

Thank you for the effort to answers. ......But i do mention Massoth both in the topic title as in the post.

As i wrote in the topic, i dont want another DCC adres. So a DCC funktiondecoder is not what i need.

Okay, sorry, I read your posting fast and missed that you are indeed installing Massoth Auto Uncouplers. Clarification: You don't need to assign and use another address for the function decoder.......the default setting on it is Address 3 like most DCC decoders. Instead, you set the same address into the 10FX function decoder as you use for the locomotive's decoder address. And you can use the default F Key assignments on the function decoder's output terminals or assign different F Key numbers. I suggest you review the Massoth 10FX User Guide which explains the various function outputs and CV settings. I haven't verified your statement that there are no unused output terminals available on the locomotive's Marklin MSD3 sound decoder, but if you're correct, you have no other choice but to use a separate function decoder for activating the Auto Uncouplers. I certainly can't think of any other option, but the 10FX is an excellent option. I'm planning on using a Massoth 10FX decoder in each of the brand new LGB F7ABA Santa Fe Diesels for the Massoth Auto Uncouplers being installed into them.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I assume the motor/sound decoder and the function decoder mentioned both have the decoder lock function, right?

Greg

 

[LGB333]

I assume the motor/sound decoder and the function decoder mentioned both have the decoder lock function, right?

Greg

Greg, the Massoth function decoder, like all Massoth decoders, has a lock feature. I would think the Marklin MSD3 also has a decoder lock feature but but I've never tried to use it.....more research needed on that question. The installer of the 10FX would program it independently first on the DCC Programming Track, lock it, and then install it into the locomotive. So, there's no need to lock the locomotive's decoder unless later, down the pike, the user wants to make some CV adjustments to the installed 10FX function decoder. That's not normally needed unless, for example, the user wants to change the decoder address. If the user wants to add another device to the 10FX, they'll have to open up the locomotive to do that anyway and can then independently make the changes directly to the function decoder without impacting the locomotive's decoder.

 

[palmerston]

MFX decoders in MFX mode dont use an adress, hence i need a SUSI module to connect to the dekoders Marklin Zugbus which is SUSI compatible. The motherboard in these LGB locos equipped with the mSD3 serie decoder does use the SUSI bus to drive the phantographs. No documents are to be found about this motherboard. The manuals dont list any CV's to be set for the SUSI-modules.

 

[LGB333]

MFX decoders in MFX mode dont use an adress, hence i need a SUSI module to connect to the dekoders Marklin Zugbus which is SUSI compatible. The motherboard in these LGB locos equipped with the mSD3 serie decoder does use the SUSI bus to drive the phantographs. No documents are to be found about this motherboard. The manuals dont list any CV's to be set for the SUSI-modules.

Contact service@maerklin.com for assistance.

 

[palmerston]

The DIETZ DSE F8 can act as a SUSI module, either as first, second or third device, each with its own CV range starting from 927. Its suitable for 12 -24V

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sorry, but you just gotta love MFX

Not making light of your situation. I'm happy I can live with plain old vanilla DCC and can remember loco addresses.

Greg

 

[JimmyB]

Sorry, but you just gotta love MFX

Not making light of your situation. I'm happy I can live with plain old vanilla DCC and can remember loco addresses.

Greg

I do read a lot of these DCC/MFX issues, and I am glad I went battery, but of course each to their own

 

[LGB333]

Sorry, but you just gotta love MFX

Not making light of your situation. I'm happy I can live with plain old vanilla DCC and can remember loco addresses.

Greg

Greg - Of course, the hobbyist could use the DCC technology instead of the mfx and then wouldn't have some of these challenges he's described in installing the Massoth Auto Uncouplers. I haven't yet tried using the mfx option on my own LGB locomotives so I don't know what the real benefits are compared to DCC. Apparently there are a lot of mfx users in Germany buy I haven't come across any here in the USA except the customer that bought a Marklin CS3+ command station from me. The only thing I've read is that there are a few esoteric CVs on the Marklin MSD3 sound decoders that you can only access using a mfx-equipped command station. Marklin apparently developed their version of digital technology for model trains about the same time that the DCC technology was developed. Below is a short history from Wikipedia. You'll note that Marklin teamed first with Lenz and then later with ESU on the mfx development, and the ESU Railcom+ feature now built into all the ESU DCC decoders appears to be similar to the mfx feature: Just place the locomotive on your layout and both mfx and Railcom+ will automatically populate your command station with the decoder's data, no need to set up the decoder with an address or speed steps. So mfx and Railcom+ have that same feature.

Marklin Digital​

Märklin Digital appeared in 1979, an early digital command control system, built around Motorola parts. A later command control system was also rebranded as Märklin Digital.

Märklin first demonstrated their new digital control system at the Nürnberg Toy Fair in 1979. After further work by a third party under contract, the system was officially introduced in 1985, with most components built by Märklin. Later, Marklin contracted Bernd Lenz for additional locomotive decoders.

The Märklin Digital system offered simultaneous control of up to 80 locomotives and 256 accessories. 14 speed steps, and an accessory function which could be used for headlights or TELEX remote uncoupling.[3]

Digital logic components of that time were expensive and the system used Trinary logic for cost reduction. Early decoders could cost as the locomotives and the expense of upgrading to Marklin Digital was considerable.

Märklin Digital (mfx)​

In 2004 a new Märklin digital control system was revealed. A new two way protocol allows for control of up 65,000 devices, locomotives can have up to 128 speed steps and 16 functions. Developed and manufactured by ESU for Märklin, later the brand Märklin System was replaced by Märklin Digital.

In 2013, the extended mfx+ digital system provided additional decoder features and also allows feedback with mfx+ equipped locomotives. The virtual fuel state of each mfx+ equipped locomotive can be set and monitored. For steam, boiler pressure and fire state can also be set, monitored, and controlled. Eventually, the locomotive must take fuel and water, as would the prototype.

 

[LGB333]

MFX decoders in MFX mode dont use an adress, hence i need a SUSI module to connect to the dekoders Marklin Zugbus which is SUSI compatible. The motherboard in these LGB locos equipped with the mSD3 serie decoder does use the SUSI bus to drive the phantographs. No documents are to be found about this motherboard. The manuals dont list any CV's to be set for the SUSI-modules.

Could you enlighten us DCC users what the benefits of using the mfx technology in instead of the DCC technology in your LGB locomotives with the MSD3 sound decoders? We're aware of the automatic population of your command station when you place the locomotive on the track, so no need to assign and enter a decoder address or the speed steps already set in the decoder. But other than that, what other benefits are there of operating under mfx instead of DCC?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Not sure we want to mess up this problem solving thread with a MFX vs the rest of the world discussion, why not start a new thread out of respect for the OP? I'd certainly like to hear from the experts on this.

Greg

 

[LGB333]

Not sure we want to mess up this problem solving thread with a MFX vs the rest of the world discussion, why not start a new thread out of respect for the OP? I'd certainly like to hear from the experts on this.

Greg

Greg - I only want to get the OP's reason why he uses mfx instead of DCC. I'm not suggesting the rest of the world chime in on their opinions. The reason he's having issues with the couplers install is because he's using mfx.

 

[palmerston]

So, I am searching for a control circuit board with connection from Marklin Zugbus (Susi mfx) to function outputs. Must be controlled via CVs 128-148 as can be read in the manual of the Nachrustdekoder mSD3. Both LGB RHB Ge4/4 I and Ge6/6 II have all AUX outputs occupied for lighting control. Therefore, 2 outputs are needed for controlling the decouplers to be built in.

 

[LGB333]

So, I am searching for a control circuit board with connection from Marklin Zugbus (Susi mfx) to function outputs. Must be controlled via CVs 128-148 as can be read in the manual of the Nachrustdekoder mSD3. Both LGB RHB Ge4/4 I and Ge6/6 II have all AUX outputs occupied for lighting control. Therefore, 2 outputs are needed for controlling the decouplers to be built in.

I haven't researched the outputs for the lights on the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders, but perhaps you could free up at least one terminal by using the headlights and interior light to share one terminal. In fact, for my own LGB locomotive collection, I usually change the headlight terminal on Massoth, ESU and Soundtraxx sound decoders to be lighted in both forward and reverse direction.......it's more prototypical of real locomotives in the USA and I assume in Europe. It was a novel concept LGB designed to have the headlight go off in the reverse direction, not actually needed. I haven't tried setting the headlight to the on position in both forward and reverse direction on my two Marklin/LGB locomotives with the MSD3 decoders, but I assume it's doable.

 

[phils2um]

HI Palmerston,

I think the Dietz function decoder you found, the DSE F8 in SUSI mode may be your answer. Since seeing this thread I'm thinking of getting a couple of these function decoders myself to "play" with along with a LGB 55029 sound decoder to put in my 2045 Ge 2/4 loco. It has a non-sound LokPilot in it at the moment. I've got a pair of the older Massoth uncouplers on hand I might try installing too.

I took the time to do a Google translate (along with a bit of editing) of the DSE F8 manual just to see what might be entailed. I've attached a .pdf copy in case you're interested. This should be used with the original Dietz manual. It can be downloaded about halfway down the list here: Ältere Anleitungen Modellbahntechnik - Dietz Modellbahntechnik

 

[palmerston]

P phils2um , i don't need translation as i can read and speak German I always keep German and English manuals at hand in case there is a bad translation. How do i know?? After consulting the manual the Dietz DSE F8 doesn't seem suitable to me. It uses CV values which doesn't match to the Mfx dekoders CV range. It may work although some people note that MLGB's Zugbus is some sort of SUSI dialect and thus will not work.

So i want to try Massoth's 8410210 Pantograph Control Board which can switch between LGB Zugbus and Susi. Also assign F1 to F28 to output. Hopefully the outputs for the Phantograph can drive the Uncouplers.

I usually change the headlight terminal on Massoth, ESU and Soundtraxx sound decoders to be lighted in both forward and reverse direction.......it's more prototypical of real locomotives in the USA and I assume in Europe.

Generally in Europe red tail lights are used on a loco. In the early days by means of a red glass to be put on the lantern. Only the Swiss had 1 white tail light.

Actually we need some one which could program those small microcontrollers and understands SUSI / MLGB Zugbus, as Marklin will not release such electronics module. Domestic dekoder manufacturers are not interested in such a device as they would want you to remove the MLGB mfx/dcc dekoder and fit theirs.

 

[Diesel2000]

Is there even an extra port to use for SUSI interface? In my experience with the MSD3 (MLGB) decoders they do NOT provide any extra ports on the boards that the decoders plug into, so there is no way to expand their usage as LGB designs the boards around the functions they spec for the locos.