Massoth sound allocation

Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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I'd like to allocate the generator sound to the lighting button.
However according to my interpretation of the instructions setting the sound button selection to 0 turns the sound off. Is there any way of achieving this without changing the lighting function button from 0?
 
PhilP

PhilP

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I assume a XLS Neil?
Which version of software does the decoder have on it?
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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I assume a XLS Neil?
Which version of software does the decoder have on it?
No, It's an independent eMotion S purchased from and programmed by Muns last week. I therefor assume it'll be the latest version file. When I get round to programming I'll be using an old LGB interface so I will be limited in function and, for example, able to alter CVs but unable to change the sound file.
 
PhilP

PhilP

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Having checked, you are correct, assigning '0' will disable that sound from being controlled by a function key..

So, time for a little lateral thinking! :):nerd:
Connect a 'spare' function output to one of the reed inputs (K1 or K2 on the underside of the board). - You will have to solder a lead from function output to the reed input.
Set function output to be 'on' with the lighting-key '0', and set reed input to trigger the generator.

Job done! :):nerd::nod::nod:
 
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Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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24 Oct 2009
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Having checked, you are correct, assigning '0' will disable that sound from being controlled by a function key..

So, time for a little lateral thinking! :):nerd:
Connect a 'spare' function output to one of the reed inputs (K1 or K2 on the underside of the board). - You will have to solder a lead from function output to the reed input.
Set function output to be 'on' with the lighting-key '0', and set reed input to trigger the generator.

Job done! :):nerd::nod::nod:
Thanks Phil, I'll file that idea for possible future use. As I see it on the sound board I'd have to use A3 rather than A7 or A8 due to differing polarities.
In this case it's a repair of an analogue loco that may be used on DCC in the future. This means I've already allocated the two reed switch inputs to the original bell and whistle functions. I'll allocate a different button to the generator sound and the owner will just have to remember to switch it on whenever the lights are on.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Ah, you did not say annnie-log.. ;):shake:

Really off the wall: - And without checking it CAN be done..

It might be possible to assign it to a spare function, and use the secondary conditions to make it come on when the cab-light is on, and the loco stationary??
I'll need t be in a semi-darkened room, with the manual, to work out if that is possible for you..
Hummmm.. Might need a brew! :think::nod::nod:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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While we are on this subject how does one remap a Sound Function to a different F Key? I kind of blur over when I think about things like this but if I could be pointed to a selection of CV's and shown what the Data is I may be able to faf around a little say swopping Sound from F12 to F4. Massoth XLS to start with.
 
PhilP

PhilP

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5 Jun 2013
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While we are on this subject how does one remap a Sound Function to a different F Key? I kind of blur over when I think about things like this but if I could be pointed to a selection of CV's and shown what the Data is I may be able to faf around a little say swopping Sound from F12 to F4. Massoth XLS to start with.
There are (up to) 16 sounds assigned to functionkeys 1-16..
Each sound has three Cv's associated with it..
So for sound #1 (probably the whistle), these are 131, 151, and 201.
CV 131 = F-key assigned to sound (F1)
CV 151 = number of times the sound will 'loop' (1-15 times, or 16=continuous)
CV 201 = volume of that sound (0=quarter, 1=half, 2=three-quarters, 3=full)
For sound #2, the CV's are 132, 152, 202

So you would need to read (and note) CV's 134, 154, and 204 - these for sound #4,
and CV's 142, 162, and 212 for sound #12.
Then swap them round.

I normally write it down in a table:
CV orig.value new-value As column headings..

That way, you can always put it back as it was, without having to use the reset function. - This is a pain for sounds, as there are three 'reset' values, each does the whole set, so writing '111' to CV 77 resets ALL the function-key assignments for CV 131-167 back to default!
Ditto for '122' (loops) and '133' (volume settings)
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

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Glazed over there :tmi::tmi::tmi::tmi:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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There are (up to) 16 sounds assigned to functionkeys 1-16..
Each sound has three Cv's associated with it..
So for sound #1 (probably the whistle), these are 131, 151, and 201.
CV 131 = F-key assigned to sound (F1)
CV 151 = number of times the sound will 'loop' (1-15 times, or 16=continuous)
CV 201 = volume of that sound (0=quarter, 1=half, 2=three-quarters, 3=full)
For sound #2, the CV's are 132, 152, 202

So you would need to read (and note) CV's 134, 154, and 204 - these for sound #4,
and CV's 142, 162, and 212 for sound #12.
Then swap them round.

I normally write it down in a table:
CV orig.value new-value As column headings..

That way, you can always put it back as it was, without having to use the reset function. - This is a pain for sounds, as there are three 'reset' values, each does the whole set, so writing '111' to CV 77 resets ALL the function-key assignments for CV 131-167 back to default!
Ditto for '122' (loops) and '133' (volume settings)
Phil I am a little uncertain still, does that mean that I need to swop the 3 CV's Values around? Rather than just say 134 and 142? Your reply was pretty clear, I think I am clear about this but just need ro be 100% sure.

If al the 3 that would suggest that somewhere else a table/CV is holding the information for those 3 CV's?

I am trying to also understand this on a Zimo Decoder where it would appear that a different set of CV's are used!

Tricky business remapping sound CV's to operate from a different F key. Clearly the programmers never considered the aspect that one might want to easily change the F keys around and almost every Chip Manufacturer appears to have a different idea of how it should be done!
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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This is not part of the NMRA standard, so each manufacturers programmers will have gone their own way..

Yes, there are three 'variables' for each sound:
The key you press to get the sound
The number of times the sound will 'loop'
The volume setting for that sound

So for sound #4:
CV 134 - Key to operate sound '0' not by F-key, 1-16 correspond to F-key that will make sound.

CV 154 - How many times sound is 'repeated', '0'=once (NO repeat), '1'= played-twice (one repeat!), up to '15', '16'=continuous.

CV 204 - Volume this sound is played at, '0'=25%, '1'=50%, '2'=75%, 3=100% of maximum volume.

There is a datasheet for each set of sounds you download. This lists the sounds, to give you their numbers etc.

Does this help?
PhilP.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Phil,
Yes many thanks that is pretty well how I understood it from your first reply.

So I tried it out on a Massoth Chip, used it on the F4 sound for this Chip that was irreleant to me "All aboard"! So when I did it the sound that I wanted to replace F4 with it never happened. Hmm double and tripple check yes got it right (using your suggested note taking) interestingly the one that I used F11 which was a hand bell changed to "All Aboard" many many times even though I had not changed that one (except to use the it and the 3cv's for F4 and leave the original 3 CV's unchanged).

The other thing about all of this that is interesting is that each of the 3 CV's appear to have their Values as Hexidecimel (last 8 characters on the third line). Thus when I update 134 (001 0000 0010) to the hand bell created via CV 141 (000 000 000) the Hexidecimel changes after you have input the 3 characters. I had not understood that but was very pleased not to have to faff with 11 numbers on each CV. In fact with Massoth Handset you cannot get into the 8 Characters of the 3rd Line Update.

Massoth Handset, yes I know that this is a clunky way to do things, but all I have having rejected a Sprog as unusable with Andy Rush a while back, plus being a Mac Man I doubt that JMRI would even work or be fathomable to me!

So I returned things as they were. F4 still not working but F11 returned to normal even though not changed. Curious!

I know I am missing something here, but only you I think will be able to tell me.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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OK.. Think I know what is going on here..

The sounds will be listed on the datasheet for the 'sound-scheme' you have..
The sounds will be labelled 1,2,3,etc. BUT.. That number *may* not correspond to the F-key the sound is allocated to.

So, there will be a 'sound #6' - F-key '6' quite often turns sound off/on.
Ditto for sound #7 - F-key '7' usually controls smoke..

When you go to the Massoth Wiki to download the soundfile, there is usually a 'pdf' data-sheet for that sound-file. - That lists the sounds (and other information) for you.

NOTE:
This may also be affected by which version of Firmware you have in the decoder.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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Aha some more research required by me then, many thanks for your replies Phil. On the Loco I played about with F5 fired up the Motor and F6 turned the sound off, pretty standard for Massoth. But that is clearly not what you are talking about here. Massoth Data Sheets next if I can get to them.
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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Massoth Data Sheets next if I can get to them.
I agree wholeheartedly. Before changing any sound allocations I like to have the relevant datasheet in front of me, check here.
Massoth WIKI | Kategorie: Sounddatenblätter
Check the information matches your loco.
As an example take a look at the No. and CV F-key columns in the sheet below.. In the latter column it lists the CV for the appropriate sound number This CV needs to be set to the function number you wish to use. In the example below the Coal Shoveling is sound 8 and its CV, 138, is set to 12 so it's triggered by button 12.
If you wanted it to be triggered by button 4 you'd need to change CV 138 to 4.
However button 4 has an existing sound allocation so that sound would need to be reallocated or turned off.


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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Another 'gotcha'..
Only ONE sound per function key is allowed..
If you inadvertently set two sounds to a function key, only the lower-number sound will work. - Don't ask how I know this, and how long it took to find the problem! :banghead::rolleyes::shake:
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

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25 Oct 2009
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My how the plot thickens!

Thus reading between the project list that Niel Shows and the amusing 'gotcha' we must turn an unwanted sound to 0 (cv142) as shown by sound 12?

Thus on my example of using F4 (sound 4) to be a different whistle (Sound 10) I would change cv 134 to 0 (to turn it off) and cv 140 to 4 thats it?

If that is right that would appear to mean that the 'sound' Long Echo Whistle is defined by cv's 140,160 and 210?

That change would also mean that for the time being F14 has no sound allocation and that we have sounds 4 and 12 with no trigger?

PS many thanks for all yur patience and answers guys, though I am not quite sure that I am there yet!
.
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

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My how the plot thickens!

Thus on my example of using F4 (sound 4) to be a different whistle (Sound 10) I would change cv 134 to 0 (to turn it off) and cv 140 to 4 thats it?

If that is right that would appear to mean that the 'sound' Long Echo Whistle is defined by cv's 140,160 and 210?

That change would also mean that for the time being F14 has no sound allocation and that we have sounds 4 and 12 with no trigger?
Yes, that'll do it
Try something similar and see. If it's not as you wish then as you have the documentation for the original you may easily revert to the original.
Turning the sound off by setting its CV to zero was the reason I started this topic. I wanted to set the generator sound to the lighting button, zero.

PS, in the example quoted, sound 12 didn't have a manual trigger anyway but it's most likely to be set up elsewhere to sound automatically on start up.
 
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