Massoth Smoke unit fan sucking into engine? also not running when the engine is moving?

[alexx2208]

Hey guys,

I'm completely new to setting up DCC engines, but I've had much success on setting up the rest of the engine. As I am currently setting it up on an LGB 2085 Mallet, which doesn't have the capability of having a hall sensor, I have wired it to the contact directly on the on-board decoder. After I connected it all, i have a few questions. It seems that the fan is sucking the smoke out thru the fan, instead of pushing it out of the tubes. Also, when the engine comes to speed, the fan completely shuts?

Does anyone have any ideas? I have tried changing the polarity of the power going to the unit, to no avail. I have also set the CV's to the decoder to tell it to send the data to the smoke unit.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

it would be good to list the decoder model number, and which smoke unit you have. Pretty hard to wire it so the smoke comes out the wrong way.

Greg

 

[alexx2208]

Hi Greg
its a massoth round boiler-8415001

 

[PhilP]

Hi Greg
its a massoth round boiler-8415001

And the decoder?

First thoughts:
IF it is blowing smoke out of the bottom of the smoke unit, it infers the fan is connected internally with the incorrect polarity?? - I don't think the fan can be installed upside down?

You are feeding track-power into the fan, and not DC from somewhere, I assume?

Cutting out once running:
Infers the element is perhaps getting too hot, and shutting the unit down?

We could do with knowing how you have the decoder and smoke unit connected?
What (if any) CV's have you changed?

PhilP.

 

[muns]

8415001 Has an built in decoder. I take it you have it connected to the track pickups and not taking power from the decoder?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I was going to ask how it was wired, once the decoder model and the smoke unit model were revealed.

Since this is a DCC decoder, pretty hard to wire it backwards, but you can do it... one thing that does not make sense is the smoke going the wrong way, I believe it is impossible to do this, since you never can directly connect to the fan itself.

There are 2 wires to the track, polarity insensitive (like all DCC decoders)
3 wires go to the optional hall sensor
3 wires for the "clock" which is the chuff trigger, one ground, one +5 volts and one for the trigger/clock itself.

So you cannot reverse the direction of the fan yourself... take it out of the loco, make it go, and see where the smoke comes out... note that you have 3 possible exits....

Greg

 

[alexx2208]

8415001 Has an built in decoder. I take it you have it connected to the track pickups and not taking power from the decoder?

Hi Muns,

I have it wired to the track pins ON the decoder. I will try moving it to the physical pickups instead.

 

[alexx2208]

And the decoder?

First thoughts:
IF it is blowing smoke out of the bottom of the smoke unit, it infers the fan is connected internally with the incorrect polarity?? - I don't think the fan can be installed upside down?

You are feeding track-power into the fan, and not DC from somewhere, I assume?

Cutting out once running:
Infers the element is perhaps getting too hot, and shutting the unit down?

We could do with knowing how you have the decoder and smoke unit connected?
What (if any) CV's have you changed?

PhilP.

Hi PhilP

As you and Muns both said, I am going to start with feeding direct track power, rather than from the track power pins on the decoder. I am using an on-board XLS sound decoder, which I know doesn't necessarily make sense for an old LGB engine, but I like utilizing plugs instead of the screw-in wires.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So, you have the track power leads connected, and not the hall effect wires.... but what about the 3 wires that connect power, ground and clock.

Please be very specific on each connection and verify my assumptions in the first part of the sentence.

Also, when removed, is it really running backwards, or are the cylinder outputs open and you are dumping that output into the boiler?

Greg

 

[alexx2208]

So, you have the track power leads connected, and not the hall effect wires.... but what about the 3 wires that connect power, ground and clock.

Please be very specific on each connection and verify my assumptions in the first part of the sentence.

Also, when removed, is it really running backwards, or are the cylinder outputs open and you are dumping that output into the boiler?

Greg

Hi Greg. I have soldered the 3 wires onto the smoke unit, and used the 3 pin to the decoder. The manual was questionably stating that the red wire was to be insulated. I have tried it with the red wire connected, and then not connected, with the same result.

Here is the excerpt from the manual: "• If no Hall Sensor is present the pulsed Smoker may be operated with clock simulation from all Massoth Decoders or Sounddecoders. Use the provided 3-lead cable (black, brown, red) and connect the 2 leads GND (black) and Clock (brown) to the Decoder (see table) and plug it into the pulsed smoker. When XLS-Onboard or XLS-M1 Sounddecoders are used, the lead need to soldered to the Decoder. The third lead (red) is not used with clock simulation and should be insulated (and maybe cut shorter)."

I am not using a hall sensor, reluctantly, as apparently there isn't a way of making one work with the LGB 2085D Mallet.

I will take some pictures later and post them here.

Thanks for the help!

 

[alexx2208]

Here is that i have soldered. As I'm reading the manual, it seems as if this is incorrect? It sounds like i need to unsolder the wires from the pads, and purchase a 3 pin plug that would go into the smoke unit, and connect that to the sound decoder. Looks like the plug of the smoke unit is the clock IN, while the pads to be soldered to are the clock OUT.

 

[alexx2208]

Also, when removed, is it really running backwards, or are the cylinder outputs open and you are dumping that output into the boiler?

Greg

Greg,

When the fan runs, the smoke seems to be dumping out the smoke thru the fan, instead of heading towards the outputs of the smoke unit.

On a side note, I believe that i have the sensor wiring incorrect. I'll look into it.

 

[muns]

The two pins for the track power on the XLS-OB are between the two sets of gearbox connectors. And yes, the plug on the smoke unit is the Clock IN. I take it you have configured the XLS to generate the appropriate pulses on A3 (CV114=30 on the XLS [I think]) for the chuff?

 

[alexx2208]

The two pins for the track power on the XLS-OB are between the two sets of gearbox connectors. And yes, the plug on the smoke unit is the Clock IN. I take it you have configured the XLS to generate the appropriate pulses on A3 (CV114=30 on the XLS [I think]) for the chuff?

Hi muns
Thanks for the info. Yes, CV 114 is set to 30. I will try and wire to the clock IN. Do you know if I need the red (5v?) Wire connected? It doesn't seem so, as I am only simulating chuff and not using a hall sensor.

Thanks again

 

[Greg Elmassian]

It might need the 5v reference, but normally just the clock line and the ground (which is a reference for the clock pulses)... but why did you disconnect it as the manual says to use it. Start with the manual first.

Why are there wires on the hall sensor pins? I thought you said you were not using a sensor.

Greg

 

[alexx2208]

It might need the 5v reference, but normally just the clock line and the ground (which is a reference for the clock pulses)... why are there wires on the hall sensor pins?

Greg

Hi Greg.

I believe that is partly where I have gone wrong. Removed those, and going forward to keep figuring this out.

 

[LGB333]

Alexx2208 - Did you get your pulsed smoker to work correctly......I didn't see any concluding posting?

I've installed some of these smokers. As you probably have determined by now, you do not use the red wire on the 3-wire cable if you're using the decoder to generate the pulses. You can just strip it off the cable. Regarding the smoke coming out the fan port, make sure you have adequate clearance around the fan.......the fan portion of the smoker needs to be elevated at least a half inch from the base you're using so the fan can get adequate air draw and then push the smoke out the exit port. I've also found that the larger diameter plastic tubing works best for existing the smoke......smaller diameter tubing can restrict the smoke flow.