So, I have the wonderful Massoth 1200 Central Station on the DVRR..at what stage do I need the power booster...does anybody know very approximate figures on track yards/metres....assume I run a few LGB trains twin motors, lights coaches, sound smoke etc. I dont want to get technical on this, measuring voltage drop or whatever. I am getting a power drop in the nether regions of the railway......I have just kept adding more and more track.
Massoth Power Booster
- Thread starter Sandy
- Start date
Well, when you run your trains, what does the 1200Z/navigator report your power consumption as?
What type of layout do you have....loops, end to end.....
What type of layout do you have....loops, end to end.....
Bloomin 'eck.....not suprised your getting some voltage drop at your neither regions.....
I would try to shorten the electrical length of the rack by installing a wire link between the bottom of the rack and the top (before it runs off along the long wall) - i would use twin and earth cooker cable.
I would try to shorten the electrical length of the rack by installing a wire link between the bottom of the rack and the top (before it runs off along the long wall) - i would use twin and earth cooker cable.
There is a jumper cable that can be seen in the last picture which then goes half way up the line on the second picture...
Well in simple terms, the thicker the cross section of wire, the less voltage drop over its length, and the ability to handle more power (Amps).
Normally, there should be no reason to use multiple feeds to a G scale layout as the cross section of the rails is massive compared to any wires used.
Before you jump in and replace the existing jumper cable, make sure all of your track joints are tight and use grpahite paste to aid conductivity. Personally, when laying old track I attempt to clean the track end and insides of fishplates so that they are nice and bright with no dirt before assembly in another attempt to improve conductivity between sections.
With regard to cooker cable....its not cheap.... £100 for 50m of 6.0mm2 or £125 for 50m of 10mm2.
If you have enough of the cable used previously left, use it and add another jumper in parallel to the existing (efectivly doubling the cross section of the existing).
Normally, there should be no reason to use multiple feeds to a G scale layout as the cross section of the rails is massive compared to any wires used.
Before you jump in and replace the existing jumper cable, make sure all of your track joints are tight and use grpahite paste to aid conductivity. Personally, when laying old track I attempt to clean the track end and insides of fishplates so that they are nice and bright with no dirt before assembly in another attempt to improve conductivity between sections.
With regard to cooker cable....its not cheap.... £100 for 50m of 6.0mm2 or £125 for 50m of 10mm2.
If you have enough of the cable used previously left, use it and add another jumper in parallel to the existing (efectivly doubling the cross section of the existing).
Whilst I agree with Mark - that bigger is best - there must be a cost/efficiency balance somewhere. I use loads of old 2.5mm 'twin & earth' mains cable with great results. I use it for jumper wires and for point motors. I got some old but unused red and black wire (its blue and brown now - Europe!).
When using the red and black for point motors I connect the earth as an extra jumper to one or other rail.
25 metres twin & earth 2.5mm at screwfix - 18 quid right now. http://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-6242yh-twin-earth-cable-grey-2-5mm-x-25m/78006
When using the red and black for point motors I connect the earth as an extra jumper to one or other rail.
25 metres twin & earth 2.5mm at screwfix - 18 quid right now. http://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-6242yh-twin-earth-cable-grey-2-5mm-x-25m/78006
Paul,
It's not about running more locos, it's about being able to run trains what maybe 100metres or more from the central station..
It's not about running more locos, it's about being able to run trains what maybe 100metres or more from the central station..
I agree with others above, the cross section of brass track generally will outperform the conductivity of most cables and because you have in effect a ring main where the path to most points on a track are energized by volts from each side of a loop then this doubles the cross section. So as also noted above, the weakness must be the joints where we switch from solid track to a thin joiner. The more joints the more potential for problems. So adding a remote power feed can help because it may bypass a few dodgy connections. Adding extra boosters won't make any difference as they just increase the available current and I think require you to have isolated track sections? A very long branch line is always a problem as it is only fed power from one end unless you wire a feed to the other end!.
So, rail clamps, soldered jumpers or anything else to improve joint connectivity should be your first choice of solution.
Hope this helps
Richard
So, rail clamps, soldered jumpers or anything else to improve joint connectivity should be your first choice of solution.
Hope this helps
Richard
The booster can supply 12 amps or 3 x4 amps to separate sections (layout divided up into separately powered sections).
It could offer an extra 12 amps to the central station's 12amps if needed as in if multiple locos are being run together with their lights, sound units and smoke (and also rolling stock lights etc) on a big layout.
I have used, for five years ,a DC 12 amp Aristo Elite power supply that feeds to 3 separate individual layout sections. On the main line I run up to quad headed USAT diesels with sound units and maybe smoke and sometimes with lit rolling stock. That takes a fair whack of amps... BUT the other two sections, sometimes, are also running at the same time and want their share of the amps so 12 amps can soon get gobbled up.
If I was to have DCC across the three sections I would keep and use the booster but, I will have least one section continuing with DC and the second section mainly DC so 12 amps DCC is fine for the main line. So no need for the booster. Also my layout is certainly not the largest in the world so track length isn't really an issue. Which leads to the next point.....
On running jumper cables:
Although track (brass but not stainless steal) is a better conductor than even 2.5mm mains cable, that is supposing that there is no loss around the layout due to the resistance with fishplates, point mechanisms etc (can be overcome by soldering track joints or using brass clamps). Once the resistance points are taken into account, the mains cable wins (especially if it is 6mm!) and it is advisable to run a jumper cable or two (especially with stainless steel which is a poorer conductor when compared to brass) if the layout is really big in expanse or has many loops etc.
It could offer an extra 12 amps to the central station's 12amps if needed as in if multiple locos are being run together with their lights, sound units and smoke (and also rolling stock lights etc) on a big layout.
I have used, for five years ,a DC 12 amp Aristo Elite power supply that feeds to 3 separate individual layout sections. On the main line I run up to quad headed USAT diesels with sound units and maybe smoke and sometimes with lit rolling stock. That takes a fair whack of amps... BUT the other two sections, sometimes, are also running at the same time and want their share of the amps so 12 amps can soon get gobbled up.
If I was to have DCC across the three sections I would keep and use the booster but, I will have least one section continuing with DC and the second section mainly DC so 12 amps DCC is fine for the main line. So no need for the booster. Also my layout is certainly not the largest in the world so track length isn't really an issue. Which leads to the next point.....
On running jumper cables:
Although track (brass but not stainless steal) is a better conductor than even 2.5mm mains cable, that is supposing that there is no loss around the layout due to the resistance with fishplates, point mechanisms etc (can be overcome by soldering track joints or using brass clamps). Once the resistance points are taken into account, the mains cable wins (especially if it is 6mm!) and it is advisable to run a jumper cable or two (especially with stainless steel which is a poorer conductor when compared to brass) if the layout is really big in expanse or has many loops etc.
Thanks everyone for their informative and constructive help. I have enough to go on now. My Central Controller clearly has enough power. All track is brass. I have brass railclamps or mechanically screwed Aristo track on 95% of layout. Plan is increase the latter to 100%, Dec trip to USA should clinch a deal for more Hilmans railclamps. Then some strategically placed heavy duty cooker cable type jump leads to problem area. I have halways had the misguided belief that the heavier the cable ,the more power loss when using it. Old dogs new tricks!
Meanwhile indoor shunting layout is progressing, managed to squeeze 16 points into it. Not much room for scenery.
Meanwhile indoor shunting layout is progressing, managed to squeeze 16 points into it. Not much room for scenery.
Your find opposite is true, The larger the cable the less of a Volt drop along it.
There are published guides to volt drop on a given length of cable and theres a Formula to work it for yourself. U= I X R where U is the Volt drop, I is the circuit current and R is the Cable Resistance, But this Formula is Hard to use as it's difficult to meaure the resistance of a cable under load as it can change from the static resitance of the cable.
It's easier to use the Published guides either in Manufacture guides or IEE 17th edition.
For example
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Figures/Tab4.6.htm
There are published guides to volt drop on a given length of cable and theres a Formula to work it for yourself. U= I X R where U is the Volt drop, I is the circuit current and R is the Cable Resistance, But this Formula is Hard to use as it's difficult to meaure the resistance of a cable under load as it can change from the static resitance of the cable.
It's easier to use the Published guides either in Manufacture guides or IEE 17th edition.
For example
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Figures/Tab4.6.htm