Massoth Navigator loses connectivity in WiFi

22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
As a relative Newby to the wonderful and wacky world of Massoth I’ve hit a snag.

only bought a new 2.4 system in September and merrily played indoors tethered as I worked on building my railway.

now I’ve gone outdoors and using the modem and signal is fantastic, works all over a large garden. The problem I have is that the Navigator trips out/loses connection to the Central Station at irregular intervals or if I add a loco to the track, loco stalls at a point etc.

now I understand that the Navigator should show number 1 for its registration. It shows 0 (I know it’s showing analog but same on dcc) 3674AD07-88E9-4FD7-8488-1B169DBB1B18.jpeg
I have to turn the navigator off and on to reconnect which is a hassle. More of a problem is that trains can still be operating and I’ve no control as the connection is lost, no emergency stop. I have to say that the stress this system gives me takes the shine off my new hobby. I should have stuck to EM gauge! Any help gratefully received
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,661
3,927
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Ok so I am quoting from an older Navi Manual so Manual Ref may be different. But what you are talking about is the Navigator ID. Not sure if 0 is a valid one but it can be changed to other than 0. The reason for this is that if you have more than 1 Navi they need to have separate ID’s.

You change this in Navigator Configuration my manual shows how to do this in section 5.4.4. Also early on in the Manual is a flow chart showing the varying options that are available on the Navi that may help.

Finally I wonder if you are loosing the signal in your Garden to the Central Station, it is possible to buy an extended Aerial for better connection and I needed to do this in my Garden that is 80 ft long.
 
22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
Ok so I am quoting from an older Navi Manual so Manual Ref may be different. But what you are talking about is the Navigator ID. Not sure if 0 is a valid one but it can be changed to other than 0. The reason for this is that if you have more than 1 Navi they need to have separate ID’s.

You change this in Navigator Configuration my manual shows how to do this in section 5.4.4. Also early on in the Manual is a flow chart showing the varying options that are available on the Navi that may help.

Finally I wonder if you are loosing the signal in your Garden to the Central Station, it is possible to buy an extended Aerial for better connection and I needed to do this in my Garden that is 80 ft long.
Thanks for replying so quickly. I don’t think that the issue is with the signal to the Central Station as I have the same problem when I’m in the house “working from home” on my test track.

having read the manual it states the Navigator ID is automatically set to number 1, no mention of 0. Strangely on the odd occasion when connection is lost the Navigator shows an ID of number 1. Once connected back it goes to 0.

I’ll try to change the ID as you suggested.

I’ve been on to the help desk at Massoth and they’ve said post it to them to check. Sent it Fed Ex, £46 got as far as Leicester then sent back! It seems post to Germany isn’t going well at present so I’m trying to solve the issue myself.

when the navigator is wired to the CS, there’s no problems with fouled points or locos not on the track causing the navigator to lose connectivity.
 
22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
Thanks for replying so quickly. I don’t think that the issue is with the signal to the Central Station as I have the same problem when I’m in the house “working from home” on my test track.

having read the manual it states the Navigator ID is automatically set to number 1, no mention of 0. Strangely on the odd occasion when connection is lost the Navigator shows an ID of number 1. Once connected back it goes to 0.

I’ll try to change the ID as you suggested.

I’ve been on to the help desk at Massoth and they’ve said post it to them to check. Sent it Fed Ex, £46 got as far as Leicester then sent back! It seems post to Germany isn’t going well at present so I’m trying to solve the issue myself.

when the navigator is wired to the CS, there’s no problems with fouled points or locos not on the track causing the navigator to lose connectivity.
Well I think there’s a problem with the Navigator having gone through the configuration settings. I can set the wired ID but it shows no ID for wireless. When I input number 1 it then states save and restart. When restarted it doesn’t remember the Wireless ID
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,661
3,927
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Well I think there’s a problem with the Navigator having gone through the configuration settings. I can set the wired ID but it shows no ID for wireless. When I input number 1 it then states save and restart. When restarted it doesn’t remember the Wireless ID
Hm ok, where did you buy it was that recent? If so try whoever sold you it as indeed you say post EU is indeed iffy just now.

Shame you are having issues enough to cheese you off so much as Massoth are a pretty good system.

If things go on and on without a resolution when things get better and we are able to meet up I can jump on the train to Grantham with a Navi or two of mine to test out your system.
 
22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
Hm ok, where did you buy it was that recent? If so try whoever sold you it as indeed you say post EU is indeed iffy just now.

Shame you are having issues enough to cheese you off so much as Massoth are a pretty good system.

If things go on and on without a resolution when things get better and we are able to meet up I can jump on the train to Grantham with a Navi or two of mine to test out your system.
Hi Dunny, yes only bought in August and really used indoors with cable whilst i've been working on the new garden line. Massoth is a great system with technology which sadly the instructions do not do justice to. Love the German's great innovators but they do assume a level of knowledge. Might take you up on your kind offer but i'd pop down to you to save you hassle. I know a couple of good pubs in your area!
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,661
3,927
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Dunny, yes only bought in August and really used indoors with cable whilst i've been working on the new garden line. Massoth is a great system with technology which sadly the instructions do not do justice to. Love the German's great innovators but they do assume a level of knowledge. Might take you up on your kind offer but i'd pop down to you to save you hassle. I know a couple of good pubs in your area!
Oh whatever suits, yes there are a few good ones my fav is the Ale Taster just 5 mins walk from me. So that you know I used to work from the Railway and have travel hence my Train trip suggestion. My Massoth system is now in the Loft so if you do visit here hope you are ok with Loft Laders.

As for the Massoth Manual, I think much of the issue is translation from a language that thinks very differently to uor English and in places does talk backwards.
 
22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
Yes good pub! There definitely seems an issue with the Navigator saving the programmed ID being wired or wireless to the CS. Bought the system from GRSUK by the way.

after 35 years in transport publishing I’ve now got time to get back into the hobby and the only thing that has changed is DCC. Fantastic with limitless opportunities mainly wasted on my needs!

yes I can get my carcass up a ladder though I feign injury when sent up one by my wife.
 
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muns

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Jon, unless you have upgraded to the 2.4GHz wireless then your RX will not talk to Laney's (sorry I dont know your real name!).

L laney 's Have you tried re-binding the Navi to the Receiver? As you purchased it in August have you contacted the original retailer?

I do have a retro 2.4GHz Transmitter here for a Navi so there is a possibility we could swap it and see if it resolves the issue. I do not have a 2.4 GHz receiver though so I cant test anything.
 
22 Oct 2020
8
3
57
Grantham
Jon, unless you have upgraded to the 2.4GHz wireless then your RX will not talk to Laney's (sorry I dont know your real name!).

L laney 's Have you tried re-binding the Navi to the Receiver? As you purchased it in August have you contacted the original retailer?

I do have a retro 2.4GHz Transmitter here for a Navi so there is a possibility we could swap it and see if it resolves the issue. I do not have a 2.4 GHz receiver though so I cant test anything.
Sorry my name is Dave, when you say re-binding the Navi to the receiver do you mean having it hard wired to the CS when programing in a new ID? I have tried this and when I input the ID number for wireless (hardwired is fine) it shuts down and reboots as it should but doesn't remember the ID. That's hard wired, when i go through this process on wifi it switches off and doesn't reboot.

Ive contacted the retailer who won't send a replacement. If i send it to them they'll send it to Germany and That's where i got to before FedEx returned my parcel. whats to say its not an issue with the CS? As you lads know getting into G scale DCC isn't cheap and i'm loving all aspects of building a garden railway for the first time except for the Massoth element. Yes i'm a bloke and yes its technology but i'm hacked off with the hassle. As my wife says is this all you have to worry about!
 
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dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,661
3,927
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Jon, unless you have upgraded to the 2.4GHz wireless then your RX will not talk to Laney's (sorry I dont know your real name!).

L laney 's Have you tried re-binding the Navi to the Receiver? As you purchased it in August have you contacted the original retailer?

I do have a retro 2.4GHz Transmitter here for a Navi so there is a possibility we could swap it and see if it resolves the issue. I do not have a 2.4 GHz receiver though so I cant test anything.
Ah Muns so I do not know, my Massoth dates from before moving here in 2012 so I presume it will be pre 2.4GHz?
 

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
Ah Muns so I do not know, my Massoth dates from before moving here in 2012 so I presume it will be pre 2.4GHz?
Yours (like mine) will be the 433MHz EU versions.
 

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
Sorry my name is Dave, when you say re-binding the Navi to the receiver do you mean having it hard wired to the CS when programing in a new ID? I have tried this and when I input the ID number for wireless (hardwired is fine) it shuts down and reboots as it should but doesn't remember the ID. That's hard wired, when i go through this process on wifi it switches off and doesn't reboot.

Ive contacted the retailer who won't send a replacement. If i send it to them they'll send it to Germany and That's where i got to before FedEx returned my parcel. whats to say its not an issue with the CS? As you lads know getting into G scale DCC isn't cheap and i'm loving all aspects of building a garden railway for the first time except for the Massoth element. Yes i'm a bloke and yes its technology but i'm hacked off with the hassle. As my wife says is this all you have to worry about!

Firstly, Hi Dave.

With the 2.4gHz system you should not need to set the Navigator ID as one will be assigned when the handset logs in to the receiver.

Having just re-read your original post it would seem that the connection is lost between the Navigator and Receiver. Is there a specific location where this happens? Where is the receiver sited? What is between you and the receiver when this happens?

When communication is lost, does restarting the Navigator without changing location fix the issue? Now I am going to assume that normally when this occurs, panic mode sets in and you rush closer to the receiver.

I will message you with my contact details if you want to have a chat about it.

Mark.
 

Brixham

No buffers were hurt at this sign
27 Aug 2010
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I have a feeling I’ve read it somewhere, that a Navi needs a certain firmware level to work with the ‘new’ 2.4G wireless. I wish I could remember where I saw that so could go back and confirm.
As your ( Dunnyrail ) Navi is of some age, but the wireless module is new.......
If a 433 wireless module works in the suspect Navi, that would help with diagnosis
Malcolm
 
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Brixham

No buffers were hurt at this sign
27 Aug 2010
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From the Mouth of the Horse.....the Massoth website

8131901 DiMAX Transmitter 2.4GHz​


With this retrofittable radio transmitter, all Navigators currently on the market can be equipped with the latest 2.4GHz technology. This makes sure that the controller will always be up to date in the future. The 2.4GHz radio transmitter requires at least the Navigator firmware version 2.1.

Worth checking Dave's navi on power up which firmware is in the unit.
Also, if all the system was purchased at the same time from that well know Garden Railway Boutique, then it's their issue as as Massoth Specialists, they should know that.

Hope that helps.....

Malcolm
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,661
3,927
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I have a feeling I’ve read it somewhere, that a Navi needs a certain firmware level to work with the ‘new’ 2.4G wireless. I wish I could remember where I saw that so could go back and confirm.
As your ( Dunnyrail ) Navi is of some age, but the wireless module is new.......
If a 433 wireless module works in the suspect Navi, that would help with diagnosis
Malcolm
Hm my Basestation was updated by Glendale 2 or so years ago so will check up the version and that of the RC’s. Hm had a look but could find nothing that was helpful, fist opening screen on the navi dissapears as soon as it appears which I think would be informative. However as my Rc Reciever module goes back to when I bought my Massoth (pre 2012) system originally as Muns says it will be a 433 system not sure how that would help?
 

Brixham

No buffers were hurt at this sign
27 Aug 2010
1,261
76
Blink and you miss it on the navi..it's only there for a second on TURN OFF when there's no Massoth Radio signal to see.
may be different in the presence of Massoth RF

Just checking a navi I have 2.00b.
The other one I have is 1.85 or something like that
Neither of which will work properly with a 2.4 GHz wireless

Central station firmware not mentioned, as the receiver ( whatever frequency ) speaks normal Massoth Bussish to the Central

Malcolm
 
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Diesel2000

Registered
18 Feb 2020
58
5
41
Chicago
I had an issue with the new 2.4ghz Nav and receiver that I bought a year ago this past January. The Nav would randomly lose connection and I would have to unplug the receiver from the CS and restart the Nav in order to regain control. I couldnt run for more than 15 minutes without it happening. Eventually I ended up replacing both the 2.4 transmitter and receiver and the problem resolved. I heard last summer there was talk at Piko of a similar issue with the Massoth 2.4ghz components as Massoth makes the Piko system. I never was able to figure out if it was the transmitter or receiver that was causing the problem as I switched back to the old FM components before having the 2.4 components replaced.
 

Brixham

No buffers were hurt at this sign
27 Aug 2010
1,261
76
The 'old' 433 MHZ system can run with 8 navis per receiver....

The 'new' 2.4GHz system can only run with 4 navis per receiver...

Progress...??

Qualifying statement...the new 2.4GHz can only run with 4 navis at the present.
So, maybe in the near future this will be increased
Also, the old 433 system had just 4 fixed frequencies available
The new 2.4GHz operates between 2.402 and 2.480 GHz....that's a range of 78MHz to find a clear channel


Once the 'issues' are known and fixable, I would think the 2.4 system will eventually be better

Malcolm
 
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LGB333

Active Member
As a relative Newby to the wonderful and wacky world of Massoth I’ve hit a snag.

only bought a new 2.4 system in September and merrily played indoors tethered as I worked on building my railway.

now I’ve gone outdoors and using the modem and signal is fantastic, works all over a large garden. The problem I have is that the Navigator trips out/loses connection to the Central Station at irregular intervals or if I add a loco to the track, loco stalls at a point etc.

now I understand that the Navigator should show number 1 for its registration. It shows 0 (I know it’s showing analog but same on dcc) View attachment 282484
I have to turn the navigator off and on to reconnect which is a hassle. More of a problem is that trains can still be operating and I’ve no control as the connection is lost, no emergency stop. I have to say that the stress this system gives me takes the shine off my new hobby. I should have stuck to EM gauge! Any help gratefully received
Hi Laney - I didn't read through all the postings on your wireless connectivity issue. If you have both the 2.4 GHz Navigator and 2.4 GHz Receiver, you should get instant wireless connectivity after you first turn on your Massoth Command Station with the Receiver attached (it will blink blue), then start your Navigator, and the Receiver will be blue steady light if you get connectivity. If you're continuing to get the blinking light on your Receiver, it's not receiving the a signal from the Navigator. I install Massoth DCC sound decoders into customers' LGB locomotives, and sell Massoth DCC components. I sold two 2.4GHz Navigator/Receivers to a couple customers over a year ago and they had wireless connectivity issues and return their sets to me. I installed Massoth 2.4GHz replacement transmitters into the Navigators and they worked like a charm. Bottom line: Some of the Massoth Navigators were produced with faulty transmitter boards. And I suspect you have the same issue. You can buy a replacement board from a Massoth seller and it's an easy swap. Or, maybe your Massoth Dealer there in the UK will install one for you and then test the Navigator and Receiver to see if you now get wireless connectivity. The Dealer should then send the faulty board back to Massoth who will replace it. By the way, another customer of mine here in the States had the same issue. He had bought his Massoth system from another seller but bought the replacement Navigator transmitter board from me, and after he installed it, his wireless issue was resolved.