Massoth IR signal decoder and reciever

P

phils2um

Phil S
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Is anyone out there using the Massoth 8172510, ITC/IR Receiver/8172010 Signal Decoder duo? This looks to me like a relatively painless but not necessarily inexpensive way to add some automation without resorting to feedback modules and sensors. (And the necessary isolated braking zones in the track and all the additional wiring!)

One other question -

I realize an IR receiver would need to be integrated to each loco's decoder. The receiver interface with Massoth decoders through the SUSI bus seems rather straight forward. I have a few of these and they can be easily modified. Can the receivers also interface with other manufacturer's decoders? In my case specifically ESU and Märklin? I assume these need to be operated in DCC mode if it is possible.

Edited to correct the receiver part number.
 
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Upon further reflection feedback sensors will still be required for automation. These Massoth units replace braking modules and all the track isolation and wiring they require. But, my question still stands, anyone out there using them or tried them out?
 
Is this indoors, or outdoors?

IR is notoriously unreliable outside..

RFid tags would be a more resilient solution, but you would have to 'roll your own' solution, probably?

PhilP
 
The components are designed for use in the garden. Check out pages 22 and 23 of the Massoth 2021 Catalog downloadable free here: Brochures & Boutiques – Massoth Elektronik GmbH
There are some examples of the setup with Massoth loco decoders here:

Infrared: Stop in a single track station – Massoth Elektronik GmbH

www.massoth.de www.massoth.de
The Massoth literature says no additional feedback modules are required for at least rudimentary automation. All the manuals/instructions I could find so far are rather vague on how to do it.
 
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I have one of the original starter sets of these but never found the time to install it. As far as I recall, they are designed for Massoth decoders and require specific firmware versions. As to use with other manufactures decoders - I doubt it.

I dont think the IR is an issue because the receiving sensor is located under the loco and the transmitter is directed straight up.
 
Regarding the signal variant, I can't see what it can do that you couldn't do more cheaply with a magnet under the loco and a reed switch connected to a normal Massoth accessory decoder, 1 or 4 channel models. As far as I can tell all they do is detect a loco, change signal to red, then after a set time period change signal back to green. I may have missed something though.

Regarding the loco variant, without the SUSI-Bidi interface they seem to do no more than a reed switch / track magnet can do, i.e. trigger a function. With SUSI-Bidi there seem to be a lot more options but the Massoth documentation does not make it entirely clear to me. There is more on the Massoth wiki site (search for Infrared) but I'm still left puzzled.

As per the original post, we need someone who has used them to chip in.
 
idlemarvel said:
I may have missed something though.
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Hi Dave,

The transmitter and receiver work together not in isolation. I think it works just the opposite of your understanding. The signal transmitter is controlling the train, not the train controlling the signal. If the signal transmitter is set to red (an actual signal light is not necessary) a message is sent to a receiver equipped loco decoder as it passes over the transmitter that will cause the locomotive to stop. Not abruptly but using whatever momentum setting you have programmed in the decoder. Likewise, when changed to green, the halted loco accelerates to its set speed based on the programmed momentum. It is acting somewhat like a DCC braking section but without needing to have two isolated track sections for slowing and emergency halt, plus all the wiring and a braking control unit. The trade-off for getting rid of the track isolation, wiring and braking units appears to be that the Massoth IR system only works with a loco that can have an IR receiver installed in it. (Only Massoth decoders with the correct firmware update as per Mark above?)

The optional the Red Light LED unit also makes the IR system unidirectional. A receiver equipped loco will ignore the command to stop if it is traveling in the direction opposite the red signal. A nice feature for a single track mainline. I don't believe the braking units available from other manufacturers have this. (Due to the dead rail emergency stop section of track.)
 
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I've been researching this topic recently and Massoth has 2 types of systems. The first system is ITC/IR that interacts directly with the decoder in the loco. You have to drill a hole for the LED in the loco in order to set up the Infra Red beam, so some modification is required.

The second system is the feedback system, using a feedback module to the CS. Massoth has the track contact/hall sensor detection method and then the current detection method with the train detection module. The track contact/hall sensor method just requires hooking up the track contacts to the feedback module and placing a magnet under the loco. By pairing the contacts you achieve directional awareness as well.

The current detection system will require isolation and wiring changes to the blocks. The Massoth train detection module is only 5 amp capable and has no short protection, so I'm not sure there is a lot of benefit to this other than you dont need to do anything to the locos. It wont detect direction, however.

I'm leaning to the feedback module and track contact method as this seems the easiest to install on my garden layout, has 10 amp short protection, and provides the greatest flexibility with 8 sensors (track contacts) per feedback module. For my application I might eventually need 2 feedback modules to support 16 sensors, but you should be able to achieve a high level of automation complexity with this.
 
Diesel2000 said:
I'm leaning to the feedback module and track contact method as this seems the easiest to install on my garden layout, has 10 amp short protection, and provides the greatest flexibility with 8 sensors (track contacts) per feedback module. For my application I might eventually need 2 feedback modules to support 16 sensors, but you should be able to achieve a high level of automation complexity with this.
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The sensors can be wired in parallel. Therefore a single track with one passing loop where two trains alternate after a complete circuit can have an additional passing loop added. The switches for the extra passing loop would use the same address as the original. Then each train only goes half way around the circuit each time. Each pair of sensors are wired into the same inputs, their commands for the locos and switches are exactly the same. You get a little more action without using extra inputs on the feedback module.

It is more satisfying because each train goes to a destination rather than returning to it's start point.

Alan
 
The Massoth IR system does not make for very much automation unless I am missing some further applications for it.

All it seems to do is stop a train at a stop signal. To resume the train running, you have to set the stop signal to clear by inputing a command into your controller. The train will then start moving without any input. Then you would have to input a command to set the signal to stop so that the train stops the next time around. All of your locomotives would require equiping with the IR otherwise some would obey the stop signal, the others would carry on oblivious to the stop signal.

Would I really want to take a locomotive apart to acheive this? I would rather stick a magnet under the locos and use hall effect sensors wired to a feedback module.

Am I missing something?

For me automation is about the trains stopping and starting and signals changing without any intervention from me leaving my hands free to enjoy my favourite beverage :):)
 
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