Massoth eMotion XLS decoder's Servo Control Settings

[LGB333]

I'm trying to install a Phoenix Sound #PHO PLRTM Remote Knuckle Uncoupler onto a eMotion XLS Sound Decoder that I just installed into an LGB Uintah Steamer. I've not connectored a servo before to one of the eMotion decoders. I first checked with the Phoenix folks about using their Remote Kunckle Uncoupler with the Massoth decoder and they replied:

"We recommend that you use the coupler driver board to control the cplrtm solenoid uncoupler, it will read the DCC signal directly and has two independent solenoid coupler outputs and two independent service outputs. We did not design the uncoupler to be driven by a standard decoder function output; that does not mean it will not work, but we can not be responsible for any issues with either the knuckle or decoder as a result as this is not a designed or intended application. We drive the solenoid with a extremely fast, milliseconds, 30V pulse. I do not know if the Massoth outputs can provide that. The XLS function outputs will provide a 'track level' voltage but I am unsure how quickly the momentary pulse is. The servo function output signal line could provide a fast enough pulse time, but with only 5V and no drive current to speak of."

So, I followed the Massoth decoder's Installation and Configuration Instructions for using Connection A7 Servo Configuration (CV124). First, I soldered the two wires from the Phoenix unit to the back of the eMotion decoder's A7 outputs. I changed CV121 from Default 13 to the not used 4 (F04 on Navigator). I then changed CV124 from Default 0 to 1, which I thought meant from Servo Deactivated to Activated. Didn't work, so I reversed the wires connecting the Phoenix unit to the A7 connection........still doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

By the way, since the eMotion Installation Instructions state that the decoder's A4 (CV116) can be used for an uncoupler, I first tried that connection. It did activate the Phoenix unit but also knocked the eMotion decoder's sound off and apparently other operating functions, so I then tried the A7 approach.

Also, can the eMotion XLS Sound Decoder power an Kadee #11220 Magne-Matic Automatic Uncoupler.........it appears that you must use the Kadee control system to use it?
Thanks,
Tom

 

[PhilP]

Whoa there Tom!

From the Phoenix website:

"Released in late 2013, the Phoenix Knuckle is a solenoid driven remote uncoupler. "

Which they say they fire with a 30V pulse, not the 5V output you will get from the servo output of a Massoth decoder.
If you want to drive this coupler with DCC, you will need the Phoenix Remote Coupler Driver Board.


The Kadee #11220, is a g-scale remote coupler, with a servo and gearbox built-in. - This can be driven by the servo output of a Massoth decoder.

Hope that helps?
PhilP.

 

[stockers]

Always best to use equipment from the same manufacturer when playing around with this sort of stuff. The basic DCC stuff is compatible but anything else is problematical.

 

[LGB333]

Whoa there Tom!

From the Phoenix website:

"Released in late 2013, the Phoenix Knuckle is a solenoid driven remote uncoupler. "

Which they say they fire with a 30V pulse, not the 5V output you will get from the servo output of a Massoth decoder.
If you want to drive this coupler with DCC, you will need the Phoenix Remote Coupler Driver Board.


The Kadee #11220, is a g-scale remote coupler, with a servo and gearbox built-in. - This can be driven by the servo output of a Massoth decoder.

Hope that helps?
PhilP.

Okay, Phip.......helpful response. But please also give me the CV settings to activate the A7 Servo settings: CV124; CV125; CV126; CV127; CV129. I'm using CV121=4 (F04 Navigator). There are also three wires attached to the Kaydee #11220 so I've played around with these three wires to the two wire A7 connection, and using CV124=2 (Servo Activated) and, as we used to say in the U.S. Navy, "no joy."

Tom

 

[PhilP]

OK............

Servo's have three wires:
0v usually black
+5v usually red
Signal/control white/yellow/orange

You will need to provide 5v for the servo. - Massoth do a little board, or you can search for something like this:

RC Trains RC Trains - Accessories

Spoiler-alert - You may recognise the name on the homepage.

Now I need to go dig-out a recent XLS manual..

 

[PhilP]

Found a more up-to-date LS manual, but CV's are the same..

So.. You need a 5v-ish supply for the servo. - See above, or Massoth 6v Fixed Voltage Regulator 8242050.

CV's:
124 '0'=off A7 is a switched function output, '1'=on A7 is a servo output
+4 if you need to reverse the direction of travel
+8 if you want to servo to 'switch off' (go back to start position) automatically.
125 start position
126 end position - these two CV's set the ends of travel for the servo, or the range over which it travels.
127 speed low is slow, high is fast

 

[Deleted member 4232]

Moved

 

[PhilP]

John,
Wiring 'error' in diagram..

There should NOT be a 'yellow' connection from A7 / control pin of servo to the regulator. - i have found erratic operation with standard servo's if this is connected.

PhilP.

 

[Deleted member 4232]

Moved

 

[LGB333]

View attachment 248032

John/Phil - Appreciate the guidance and drawing of the connections to a Massoth decoder. Since I've never connected a Servo to one of these Massoth eMotion XLS Sound decoders before, I need a little more help:

1. The Kadee #11220's Yellow Servo Control Wire connects to my Massoth eMotion XLS A7 (+) Servo Connection (Massoth Installation Manual states decoder's A7 is fixed at 5 volts);
2. The Kadee's Black Ground Wire Connects to DEC (-) next to the A7 (+) connector;
3. Kadee's Red Wire connects to one of the decoder's two DEC (+) connections.........but Massoth's Installation Manual states both are +22 volts output, is that okay to use for the Servo or do I need to use another 5 volt connection someplace? I don't see in the Massoth Configuration Manual an option to change a DEC (+) connector from 22 to 5 volts? So if I need another 5 volt connection for the Red wire, do I need to change some other + connection to a 5 volt "Dimming Value" and use it instead of one of the decoder's two 22 volt DEC (+) connectors? There's A5(+), but A1 - A4 are all (-).

Thanks,
Tom

 

[PhilP]

Tom, expand this to see responses..
(Only in Red to make them stand out Phil).

John/Phil - Appreciate the guidance and drawing of the connections to a Massoth decoder. Since I've never connected a Servo to one of these Massoth eMotion XLS Sound decoders before, I need a little more help:

1. The Kadee #11220's Yellow Servo Control Wire connects to my Massoth eMotion XLS A7 (+) Servo Connection (Massoth Installation Manual states decoder's A7 is fixed at 5 volts);

By changing CV124, you have changed what the A7 output does:
It no longer 'just' supplies a switched voltage, but by making it a 'servo output', it now supplies a variable width pulse control signal for the servo (Kadee).

2. The Kadee's Black Ground Wire Connects to DEC (-) next to the A7 (+) connector;

NO, do not connect the black wire from the Kadee here!

3. Kadee's Red Wire connects to one of the decoder's two DEC (+) connections.........but Massoth's Installation Manual states both are +22 volts output, is that okay to use for the Servo or do I need to use another 5 volt connection someplace? I don't see in the Massoth Configuration Manual an option to change a DEC (+) connector from 22 to 5 volts? So if I need another 5 volt connection for the Red wire, do I need to change some other + connection to a 5 volt "Dimming Value" and use it instead of one of the decoder's two 22 volt DEC (+) connectors? There's A5(+), but A1 - A4 are all (-).

Do NOT connect the red wire to Dec+ ! - You are correct, this is +22 volts.

You need a regulator board. - John showed the Massoth unit, and a nice little unit from the Internet with an easy to see/use multiturn potentiometer, I linked to a cheaper one, which has a standard tiny potentiometer on it.
YOU MUST HAVE A 5 VOLT SUPPLY TO THE KADEE. - Hence you need the regulator. A 'dimming vlaue' output is not suitable.

Big hint, is that Massoth have gone to the trouble of making a regulator board.

You can use the Dec+ and Dec- outputs from your decoder to feed INTO the regulator board.


Thanks,
Tom

 

[LGB333]

Tom, expand this to see responses..
(Only in Red to make them stand out Phil).

Phil - Okay, I understand now about adding a 5 v. regulator. I saw the regulator in John's diagram but I thought it might be needed only for that Massoth decoder he showed. I'm using their full blown Sound decoder version which I assumed had the features and adjustments to handle a 5 v. servo without one...….I mean it can do just about anything but make pancakes! It would be nice if either the Massoth decoder's Installation Manual or the Configuration Manual that came with the decoder would have mentioned the need for a 5 volt regulator for connecting a servo to it...….I'm not Karnak the wizard.

So, I have several generic 5 volt regulators in my tool box that should work, but I need to look at their connections. Otherwise, I can easily order one from the Massoth dealer just an hour from me, AllAboutLGB.com in Baltimore. There's lots of room inside the LGB Uintah locomotive I'm installing the Massoth eMotion XLS Sound Decoder, the Massoth Pulsed Smoke Unit, the Massoth Firebox Flickering Light Unit, Speakers, and now a 5 volt regulator, but some smaller locomotives are more space constrained.

Thanks a million for the advice!
Tom

 

[Greg Elmassian]

PhilP:

Why do you say the servo negative/black should not connect to the decoder ground DEC-?

Guess I am confused, I see pictures of an XLS decoder that look like this:

But that does not match the image provided by John S...

Greg

 

[idlemarvel]

Greg, ref your second point, John's image in post #7 shows and is labelled a XL-M1 not an XLS

 

[PhilP]

Why do you say the servo negative/black should not connect to the decoder ground DEC-?

IF the OP is using a Massoth regulator, as in John's diagram... Then fine..

If using one of the other regulators, then they have discrete inputs and outputs.. There may-well be a path 'straight-through', but without a diagram, who knows.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Greg, ref your second point, John's image in post #7 shows and is labelled a XL-M1 not an XLS

Right, and the original poster specifies an XLS not an XL-M1 in post #1.

Greg

 

[PhilP]

Greg,
I think it was a picture John had 'to hand', and has a nice solid solder pad labelled 'A7'. - No silly little mini CT connector with A.N.Other pin to add confusion??

 

[LGB333]

Phil - So with my Massoth XLS decoder, I should still use the diagram and use the 5 volt regulator to connect both the decoder's DEC + and DEC - wires to it?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I would say yes, and if you are using a normal +5v regulator with a "straight through ground" you can hook the servo black/ground/- wire to the DEC- or you can use the ground on the output side of the regulator.

Do not try to "dim' an output to give you 5 volts.... don't even think about that... for an entire paragraph of reasons.

Greg

 

[muns]

A7 on the XLS is a solder pad on the underside.

The diagram below is for a XL, Note the connection of the Function output (A3 in this case, A7 on the XLS) connects to one of the "servo" pads on the underside of the 6v regulator board in order to use the onboard pull up resistor.