Massoth Decoder Firmware Update Issues (again!)

[Ralphmp]

Apologies for yet another thread on this but I'm struggling to put a new firmware file onto a decoder and can't for the life of me see what I'm doing wrong.

I'm using the Massoth PC Module (USB version - 8175201) and the latest Massoth Service Tool program which works fine for reading/identifying the decoder and reading/wrting CVs. However, ask it to update firmware and I keep getting errors that say "Read No Data (117)". In addition, if I try the "Fast Update" option (as opposed to the "Update" option) the red light on the PC Module which normally flickers to show things are working OK just goes out when I try to do the firmware update.

I've worked my way through all of the helpful suggestions people have given me on this - e.g. keep the connections from the decoder to the PC module short, close the Service Tool Program, power cycle the PC Module, reopen the Service Tool Program and go straight to the firmware update section, sacrifice a chicken, etc. - but no joy.

As I have exactly the same issue with different decoders, and I can do firmware updates OK for the PC Module itself and my Navigator & Central Station, I wondered if I'm doing something really basic (dumb) that's wrong and just wanted to check a couple of things -

1. Do I need a load (e.g. a motor) on the decoder to do firmware updates (like I do to carry out CV programming)?
2. If I use the Fast Update lead (connects the PC Module to the decoder via a SUSI plug) do I need any additional connections to the decoder (e.g. power) or does everything go via the SUSI lead? (the picture in Massoth PC Module manual implies you just plug in the SUSI lead)
3. I'm using a LGB 50110 transformer to power the PC module. On the bottom it tells me it puts out 18v and 10 0 VA - is this enough oomph for a firmware update or do I need something more meaty?

If some kind soul could point me in the right direction on this I'd be very grateful and you'd cheer me up no end (feeling pretty dismal as redundancy is looming and Arsenal have just self-destructed in the Champions league again ...).

Thanks in advance.
Phil

 

[muns]

1) No.
2) No.
3) No. I used to use a 50110 but have now moved to a Switched Mode PSU.

Which decoders are you trying to update? What firmware do they have? Earlier versions cannot be updated via Fast update and some not at all (and would need to go back to the factory).

What colour fast update lead are you using? Ideally it should be red with an improved SUSI connector that is easier to remove from the decoder.

 

[Ralphmp]

1) No.
2) No.
3) No. I used to use a 50110 but have now moved to a Switched Mode PSU.

Which decoders are you trying to update? What firmware do they have? Earlier versions cannot be updated via Fast update and some not at all (and would need to go back to the factory).

What colour fast update lead are you using? Ideally it should be red with an improved SUSI connector that is easier to remove from the decoder.

Mark

Thanks for the reply.

Currently trying to update firmware on an XLS decoder (but have previously had identical issues with an S sound decoder and LS decoder).
Based on the Service Tool "Read Decoder" function, I believe the current firmware version is 2.70
Fast update lead is the red one that came with the PC Module

Will try again starting from scratch.

Best wishes
Phil

 

[stockers]

I ask this because I don't know - but what is the gain from the update, as in, why bother. All my 20 odd decoders are as i purchased them so I want to know if i am missing something?

 

[Deleted member 1986]

"Read No Data (117)".
Wrong version of Firmware Update, see below, going from 2.70 to where? A Number of Firmware revisions will have to be installed BEFORE carrying out an update to the latest and most up to date Firmware Revision of 4.01


"Fast Update"
Only came into use from version 3.6.

See attached pictures,

PS. Depending on how up to date your MST is, you may still have the earlier versions of the Firmware files, they will be marked as *.old in your MST directory. Failing that Peter or Barbara at Massoth if asked nicely, will provide a link for "all" previous Firmware Updates........................





PPS: Never yet had to send one back to the Factory to have a Firmware Revision revised or to be installed!
Just requires a methodical approach and a great deal of patience!
Why upgrade? Guess a perusal of the Revision History will provide the answer to that question!

 

[PhilP]

Alan,
You tend to find 'subtle' (like a brick to the head!) thing have changed from version to version..
Also, if you get 'bare' sound decoders, you will find the soundfile on the WIKI tend to only be for the latest firmware revision. - If you have an old firmware revision, and a up to date soundfile, this can cause strange things to happen.
The newer firmware versions now have updated lighting effects, and the like, as well.

Though if it works for you, and 'it ain't broke..' Then that is fine as well.
PhilP.

 

[Ralphmp]

Alan

Like you, I have never bothered updating firmware on a decoder previously. However, I have a decoder which came devoid of any sound other than "eins, zwei, drei..." when you press function 1,2,3... I didn't realise this when I bought the thing and, for various reasons, it was quite a while afterwards that I went to install it and found out it didn't have a sound file. I tried to add one but my attempts failed just as dismally then as they are doing now, so I put the decoder aside and bought another that worked fine. As I now have another analog loco I want to convert to DCC, I thought I'd try and resurrect the "sound-free" decoder and, as Phil explained, I need to update the firmware first to make sure it aligns with the sound files currently available.

Arthur A's post above (many thanks for this) that error 117 is caused to trying to load the wrong firmware gives me a ray of hope. The "oldest" firmware file I have is v3.6 (which was included with the files that came with the Massoth Service Tool) and maybe this is too big a jump from the v2.7 that's currently on the decoder. As suggested, I'll contact Massoth to see if I can get some older versions and try again.

 

[stockers]

OK, I see.
To date, I have just fit, set up and forgot. I have so far got the sound files I want pre-loaded so no problems with compatibility there.

 

[Deleted member 1986]

hope. The "oldest" firmware file I have is v3.6 (which was included with the files that came with the Massoth Service Tool) and maybe this is too big a jump from the v2.7 that's currently on the decoder. As suggested, I'll contact Massoth to see if I can get some older versions and try again.

Uploaded Firmware revisions to < 3.55 are here
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6_2wAO6JzxFUnZhUl9SZ2JBX2s?usp=sharing
have a play...................

Up to Firmware Revision < 3.55 are in the format XLS_Vxxx.eMOTION, from > 3.6 onwards are in the new format as displayed on the screen in the previous post.

The sound files are in two groups those for < 3.55 and those for > 3.6, just a matter of selecting from the correct group to coincide with the correct Firmware Revision.

Also there are two versions of the manuals to cover the Firmware Revision versions which may be useful for study purposes with regard to the relevant CV's, for the various sound files.

As ever, to date the best and most accurate way to determine the correct CV's is to use the MST program to interrogate the decoder, and then to print out the CV list.

Note: For future references, revision 3.2 has not been included, this is an odd one, only needed if uploading a specific RhB sound file.

 

[Ralphmp]

Thanks for these - much appreciated.

 

[Ralphmp]

Well, not sure if counts as progress but I'm now getting a different error code - "No Device For Update (AA)". This seems bizarre as I have just read CVs from the decoder OK and written CVs OK. Any suggestions on why this new code is now popping up?

 

[Ralphmp]

YIPPEEEEEE!!!! Cracked it!

I connected the decoder directly to the PC Module and connected an old (but working) motor directly to the decoder and I can now update firmware. My previous attempts had been based on using a motor installed in a loco as load. Not sure why having it on the becnch should make a difference but it clearly does. One thing I also noticed, if I carry out any CV read / writes and then try and update the firmware, I get errors. However, if I go straight to firmware updating when I open the Service Tool program it works just finr.

Many thanks for all the advice and in particular thanks to Arthur and Phil for their assistance - once again the forum provides the answers.

Cheers
Phil

 

[PhilP]

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So do you think it was the direct connection to the decoder or connecting a motor?

Many decoders require a motor while programming.

Greg

 

[PhilP]

My guess the loco in question possibly had LGB analogue electrics in it, with a bunch of crapacitors confusing the issue..

That and an OLDER decoder, that DID need a motor as a load, to provide feedback..

 

[Ralphmp]

So do you think it was the direct connection to the decoder or connecting a motor?

Many decoders require a motor while programming.

Greg

Not sure - I've not really had issues reading/writing CVs to decoders installed in locos where the PC module is connected to aprogramming track,and the loco is sat on the track (or rolling road). Typically, I'd do the CV programming while the loco is dismantled and have the decoder connected to the 4 pins on the gearbox. However, I've never managed to update firmware / soundfiles using this setup (as you can tell from this thread).

I decided to try the "out of the loco" setup - PC module ==> decoder ==> motor - as I vaguely remembered this being suggested many moons ago in GSM days when someone was having trouble loading a sound file.

Whatever the reaon, I'm just glad I've found a way that works for me!

 

[gibsonjody]

I would guess the problem it's that the PC module has disconnected when you switch from the CV reading section to the firmware section.

At the bottom of the software check the interface is open, as shown below:-


Make sure its connected before starting any update. if its not connected, click on interface in the menus, then configuration, then select your appropriate device and COM

Hope this helps.

 

[Wilco]

Hi Phil,

The Massoth PC Module works best on DC power, instead of AC power.
I use a laptop battery charger for that.

Wilco

 

[akoushla]

Apologies for yet another thread on this but I'm struggling to put a new firmware file onto a decoder and can't for the life of me see what I'm doing wrong.

I'm using the Massoth PC Module (USB version - 8175201) and the latest Massoth Service Tool program which works fine for reading/identifying the decoder and reading/wrting CVs. However, ask it to update firmware and I keep getting errors that say "Read No Data (117)". In addition, if I try the "Fast Update" option (as opposed to the "Update" option) the red light on the PC Module which normally flickers to show things are working OK just goes out when I try to do the firmware update.

I've worked my way through all of the helpful suggestions people have given me on this - e.g. keep the connections from the decoder to the PC module short, close the Service Tool Program, power cycle the PC Module, reopen the Service Tool Program and go straight to the firmware update section, sacrifice a chicken, etc. - but no joy.

As I have exactly the same issue with different decoders, and I can do firmware updates OK for the PC Module itself and my Navigator & Central Station, I wondered if I'm doing something really basic (dumb) that's wrong and just wanted to check a couple of things -

1. Do I need a load (e.g. a motor) on the decoder to do firmware updates (like I do to carry out CV programming)?
2. If I use the Fast Update lead (connects the PC Module to the decoder via a SUSI plug) do I need any additional connections to the decoder (e.g. power) or does everything go via the SUSI lead? (the picture in Massoth PC Module manual implies you just plug in the SUSI lead)
3. I'm using a LGB 50110 transformer to power the PC module. On the bottom it tells me it puts out 18v and 10 0 VA - is this enough oomph for a firmware update or do I need something more meaty?

If some kind soul could point me in the right direction on this I'd be very grateful and you'd cheer me up no end (feeling pretty dismal as redundancy is looming and Arsenal have just self-destructed in the Champions league again ...).

Thanks in advance.
Phil

Try resetting the com port when you restart the Massoth program.

Worked for me.

Good luck.

 

[OBBherr]

I have a similar problem in terms of the diagnostic code, but a different siruation inasmuch as I am trying to update a Navigator from 2.06 to 2.10.

1. I have the PC Module connected via USB to the laptop on COM 9.
2. The Nav is connected by wire to the Massoth Bus output on the PC Module
3. The Service Tool has just been updated and has already successfully updated firmware on my 1210Z.
4. I am following the instruction to connect the Navigator while holding down the right hand stop key.
5. When I attempt to update I get the Read No Data (117) error

My first question relates to putting the Navigator into Update mode (supposedly by holding down the STOP key as above). When I do this I get a blank uniform grey screen. It's not the same as the screen when Off but there is nothing to read. What should the Nav screen look like in Update mode?

Other than that specific can anyone advise what I am doing wrong? I'm betting it's user error although I have re-read the MST, PC Module and Nav instructions repeatedly and I can't spot my error. Thanks for any insights.