Massoth clamps or Aristo screws....?

Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
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A quick question to gauge opinions and experiences...... most of my track (which is getting closer to being laid at last!!!) will be Massoth-clamped, but I have some parts (particularly a large sweeping curve) where I will be using some very large-radius Aristo, which obviously has its own fixing method with the tiny little screws.
My conundrum is whether to rely on the screws for the Aristo sections, or whether to dispense with their joiners and simply Massoth-clamp everything. My gut feeling is that the clamps would most likely be slightly better than the screwed joiners, but are they "better enough" to warrant the additional cost?

Before anyone asks, this is for DCC track power!

Opinions?

Jon.
 
My track has been down for nearly 20 years & most is Aristo.. Whilst the screws were OK to start with they do work loose or just disappear. I used to do regular checks & tightened loose screws. After a time I found some just wouldn't tighten. Now I have a new system. When the train stops I replace the Aristo joiners with Massoth clamps. So far this season I have replaced 4.
 
Thanks Mike - so based on that, what would be your advice - use the screws until they fail, or just say to heck with it and clamp everything from the start?

Jon.
 
Depends on how many rail clamps you need. I think the cost at the start would be prohibitive, The track was dear enough.
When I started Massoth clamps were not around & Hillman are a pain to put on. I started by putting clamps on the turnouts for easy removal. Then I just changed them as & when required.

You pays your money & takes your choice.
 
Zerogee said:
A quick question to gauge opinions and experiences...... most of my track (which is getting closer to being laid at last!!!) will be Massoth-clamped, but I have some parts (particularly a large sweeping curve) where I will be using some very large-radius Aristo, which obviously has its own fixing method with the tiny little screws.
My conundrum is whether to rely on the screws for the Aristo sections, or whether to dispense with their joiners and simply Massoth-clamp everything. My gut feeling is that the clamps would most likely be slightly better than the screwed joiners, but are they "better enough" to warrant the additional cost?

Before anyone asks, this is for DCC track power!

Opinions?

Jon.
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I have used Aristo screwed track for the majority of my WWSR, and now for half of the NNWR - it's fine, and electrical continuity is good.

If your thumbs are good on the little screwdriver, then you'll be OK. Just occasionally you'll find a fishplate screw may have come a little loose, but not very often (i.e one connection only and that once in six years).

There are varying reports about the screws coming loose, and I've come to the conclusion that it's all due to how tight you can get that tiny little screwdriver.

What I discovered when I re-laid the track for the NNWR, is that the screw keeps the fishplate tight to the rail, and when I slid them off to clean them before re-laying, I found that all of the rail ends inside the fishplates were clean, shiny brass :nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:
 
Zerogee said:
A quick question to gauge opinions and experiences...... most of my track (which is getting closer to being laid at last!!!) will be Massoth-clamped, but I have some parts (particularly a large sweeping curve) where I will be using some very large-radius Aristo, which obviously has its own fixing method with the tiny little screws.
My conundrum is whether to rely on the screws for the Aristo sections, or whether to dispense with their joiners and simply Massoth-clamp everything. My gut feeling is that the clamps would most likely be slightly better than the screwed joiners, but are they "better enough" to warrant the additional cost?

Before anyone asks, this is for DCC track power!

Opinions?

Jon.
Click to expand...
Andy Rush used the Aristo ones with the Aristo Track on his long hidden section. Eventually a few failed and we fitted Track Clamps of varying makes. I have removed all the Aristo Screw things on my Aristo Track and used Massoth Clamps. I am DCC and have had no joint failures at all, well except the ones that I forgot to tighten up properly. They eventually told me the error of my ways, once tightened fully no more issues.
JonD
 
Hmmm, thanks for all the responses so far chaps, as I kind of expected there is a mix of opinions....... the overall feeling I'm getting is that the Aristo screw connections are generally OK, but the clamps are probably better. As I'm laying track from scratch, I'm leaning towards erring on the cautious side and using the clamps throughout..... it is maybe a maximum of twelve sections of Aristo track I'm talking about, so that's at most another 24 clamps - maybe thirty quids' worth - seems like it is something worth doing. "Not worth spoiling the ship for a hap'orth of tar", as the old saying goes....

Jon.
 
Most of my track uses Aristo type connectors and they give very little trouble. I usually go round and tighten the screws once a year but that is all the maintenance they end. I have never had a screw fall out.

Some of my track has been down 16 years and was secondhand Aristo when I bought it. If I have to lift track to improve the roadbed or for other garden related reasons some of the joiners have become a bit weak. As Aristo is no longer available I now replace old joiners with Massoth clamps where I need to. The need arises from me damaging an old joiner when lifting track or when installing new track. I always end up having to cut the track and Then clamps are by far the easiest solution.

Of course none of us know how good Massoth clamps will be when they are 20 years old. They look like they will be ok but we don't know.
 
chris m01 said:
Of course none of us know how good Massoth clamps will be when they are 20 years old. They look like they will be ok but we don't know.
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That may well be true, but I have been using Hillman Clamps now since 2000 and they are brass made just like Massoth, but a different style. That is now 17 years and the only problem I have had with them is the occasional screw breaking when pulling apart and reconnecting after alterations and a move of House. Fortunately someone on here named a supplier for replacement screws in UK and I have a good supply should any more scres break. So all in all I reckon longevity is not an issue with Track Clamps.
JonD
 
I fitted Massoth rail clamps in Dec/Jan to my small indoor layout which is now nearly 25 years old.I did the main running line & loop first. It so improved the running of all my LGB loco's, even the 0-4-0's now can run run over points at slow speed with out faltering on dead frogs due to better alignment. I have now also fitted the clamps to the loco & goods sidings. Replacing track is so much easier now. Recommend fitting, worth the expense. Doug.N .
 
I have a mixture of track and the aristo screwed sections seem to work fine. 11 years down now. I did use the paste as well.
Not lost any screws but the occasional retightening has been carried out but I recon at less than yearly intervals.
 
chris m01 said:
Most of my track uses Aristo type connectors and they give very little trouble. I usually go round and tighten the screws once a year but that is all the maintenance they end. I have never had a screw fall out.

Some of my track has been down 16 years and was secondhand Aristo when I bought it. If I have to lift track to improve the roadbed or for other garden related reasons some of the joiners have become a bit weak. As Aristo is no longer available I now replace old joiners with Massoth clamps where I need to. The need arises from me damaging an old joiner when lifting track or when installing new track. I always end up having to cut the track and Then clamps are by far the easiest solution.

Of course none of us know how good Massoth clamps will be when they are 20 years old. They look like they will be ok but we don't know.
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Bachmann now make the Aristo fishplates, and I assume the screws, but I was able to buy the screws from PhilP on this 'ere forum :nod::nod:
 
Rhinochugger said:
Bachmann now make the Aristo fishplates, and I assume the screws, but I was able to buy the screws from PhilP on this 'ere forum :nod::nod:
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That's interesting - I was wondering (or my mind was wandering) the other day if they were identical? I have no problem with the socket head scews as they are easily obtained from nut & bolt stockists online.

I sometimes use a standard Allen Key for tightening up (or removing) as I'm losing my grip strength (probably because I overtightened them with the Allen Key).

75% of track continuity problems, experienced by me, have been with LGB joiners. Drilling through the fishplates in a downward direction and screwing in st.st. self-tappers cures the problem (scrape the fishplate of oxidisation first, of course, before inserting the screws).

The other 25% of the problems have been the points!
 
It has long been thought that Aristo and USA Trains brass rail came from the same manufacturer, so it is not unreasonable to assume that the almost identical Bachmann track also comes from this source.

I am a convert to track clamps for nigh on fifteen years outdoors. I personally preferred the excellent Hillman range, but did source replacement clamps (Uncle Hermes) when the Hillman variety were not produced. I like clamps as firstly they align the rail and secondly once tightened rarely if ever need looking at again. I used Aristo stainless rail and found that the securing screws did loosen over time. Due my extensive power distribution I never suffered a direct power loss even when the few remaining screw mounted fishplates loosened off.

Even if the fishplates do give reasonably reliable conductivity, assuming that a maintenance regime is carried out, personally I would opt for clamps as they offer superior track holding as well as easy reconfiguring of the track plan or access to points/switches if needed to be removed for maintenance.
 
Another thing worth bearing in mind for us outdoor types, trackclamps bond the rail in such a way that it makes theft just too difficult. Imagine trying to steel away down the road with a 30ft length of LGB Track.
JonD
 
I had considered the potential theft aspect, JonD, and yes, it is certainly a factor - obviously any method that physically bonds the track together would work in that regard; Tim's comment about simpler removal of track sections for maintenance if they are clamped is very valid, too - I think that all things considered, I am leaning towards clamping everything, including the Aristo sections.

Thanks to everyone who has provided advice and opinions!

Jon.
 
I spent the early part of this year converting to Massoth Clamps. My track is close to 800 feet long so it needed a considerable number of clamps (bulk buying from Muns helped reduce the cost:)) but the improvement in running is just remarkable and certainly worth the expense and time taken doing the conversion.

Another point that makes maintenance easier is that with the clamps you are screwing in vertically but with the Aristo screws you are screwing in horizontally which can be a real pain if you are working in a confined space.
 
All my track is Aristo brass, a mixture of US and European styles. This arose due to subsequent purchases being made particularly at an advantageous price. Nearly all my track has been in situ for fourteen years.
I operate using battery power these days, having done so for a few years now, so connectivity is not a paramount issue. I still have a track power facility if needed.
I have found the screws do assist good conductivity and have never needed paste or any other accessory to maintain good track power. I do check the screws tightness a couple of times a year - which I do a section at a time - this to my view is all part of good housekeeping as far as the railroad is concerned. It is easily combined with ballast level checking, removal of seedlings and other necessary maintenance.
Clamps seem a good idea to me where track, particularly switches/points, need quick and easy removal from time to time. However, that is the only area I would consider spending money on clamps.
The Aristo screws can be a pain in the initial stages of the hobby but it soon becomes a knack and one learns never to unscrew the blighters without some low tray beneath the track to catch an errant screw. Once they are in the ballast it can be difficult sometimes to see and retrieve them
 
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