Locomotive Performance Comparisons - From Ruritanian Railways

whatlep

whatlep

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This is a resurrected thread from GSM which summarises a good deal of testing I undertook to figure out why some of my locomotives were underperforming (as I thought). It also gave me an opportunity to hang as many wagons as I could on each loco and play trains!

For those not familiar with my line, Ruritanian Railways is roughly flat at each end, but features a long, 1 in 20 (5%) gradient between the two main levels with uncompensated curves.

Below are the contestants and the test vehicles (LGB hoppers). In no particular order, we have:
LGB Brohltal Mallet
2 * LGB Schoema diesels
2 * LGB Stainz from starter sets
LGB 2095 diesel
Piko BR80 from starter set
Piko Railbus
 
The tests were all performed to the same parameters and the full sequence was repeated 3 times to make sure that the order in which locos ran was not affecting results. The haulage limit was determined very simply by waiting until unrecoverable slipping occurred. If a loco slipped for a second and then recovered without any intervention from me, that was OK.

Eight 300mm vehicles is good enough for my purposes, as my sidings are that length, but 10 is a desirable maximum for effect!

The first set of results:
Testing location: 1 in 20 (5%) uphill gradient
Rail conditions: clean, dry
Test vehicles: 9 LGB 4141 type hoppers + 2 Toytrain brake vans if more load required
Power: LGB MTS, set to setting 6 (of 14)

LGB Mallet (3400 grams) - 9 hoppers
2 LGB Stainz (3400 grams) - 9 hoppers
Piko Railbus (? grams) - 8 hoppers
Piko BR80 (2200 grams*) - 7 hoppers
LGB Stainz (1700 grams) - 6 hoppers
LGB 2095 diesel (3200 grams) - 5 hoppers
2 LGB Schoema diesels (3100 grams) - 4 hoppers

(*) - includes added weight; 1700 grams as supplied by Piko

So: very happy with the Mallet; pleased with both Piko's products; and impressed with the Stainzes, both singly and in multiple. Dammit, looks like Paul Holt has been right all along!!

Much less happy with the 2095 and the Schoemas. More testing required....
 
<p><u>Second Set Of Results - LGB 2095 diesel:
</u>with 500 grams added weight - 6 hoppers (*)
with 1000 grams added weight - 7 hoppers (*)
no added weight, skates removed - 9 hoppers
skates removed, 500 grams added - 11 hoppers (*)
skates removed, 1000 grams added - 11 hoppers
(*) - slight slippage, but recovered without intervention

To me, this says that skates have a very high drag factor indeed. On a small engine, the extra current pickup is clearly important. Not so on the 2095! Weight certainly helps, but nothing like as much as reducing drag, at least on these results. Presumably that's a major factor why LGB's Mallet performed so well in the original tests.

So, "get yer skates off" was today's order of the day. Bearing in mind that my Schoema diesels always run as a pair, I thought I'd try removing their skates too. </p><p><u>Final Set Of Results - 2 LGB Schoema diesels:
</u>as supplied, no modifications - 4 hoppers
with 500 grams added weight per loco - 7 hoppers (*)
no added weight, skates removed - 7 hoppers
skates removed + 500 grams/ loco - 9 hoppers
(*) - slight slippage, but recovered without intervention

Again, shedding the skates makes a huge difference, but getting some weight in seems to be worth having on these rather light locos.

My conclusions from this are pretty straightforward:
1) Except on small locos, skates are a nuisance. Get rid!
2) An optimum weight per LGB motor block seems to be around 2000-2200 grams


Any questions or comments on the tests and results are welcome. </p>
 
I remember this thread well . two observations.
1. Skates do improve pick up, especially on damp or dirty rail. You should see a mallet on dirty track in the damp. So you might want to keep them.
2. My Scheoma had sticking skates - that is they did not slide smoothly in the chassis. This effectively lifts the wheels off the track, A good clean and a tiny bit of oil helped.

Very good bit of research this - precise records - Brill. :D
 
stockers - 8/11/2009 4:20 PM
I remeber this thread well . two observations.
1. Skates do improve pick up, especially on damp or dirty rail. You should see a mallet on dirty track in the damp. So you might want to keep them.
2. My Scheoma had sticking skates - that is they did not slide smoothly in the chassis. This effectively lifts the wheels off the track, A good clean and a tiny bit of il helped.
Click to expand...

Both fair and accurate points. Mind you in really damp weather I tend either not to run expensive motive power, or to connect the power feed from the loco's multi-purpose socket to the attached rolling stock. A train 3 metres long with multiple pickups tends not to have pick-up issues, at least in my experience. Some wheel cleaning generally required afterwards though! :thinking:
 
I don't have electric locos so I'm not well up on them but wouldn't rollers be better than skates?
 
I think the skid action helps keep the skates and the rail cleaner Allan.
 
These comparisons are very useful, thanks for posting. I wish more people would contribute similar info on their own locos and experiences. It's so disappointing to put a new loco on the track only to discover that it won't pull what you wanted or expected.

Talking of which I see lots of pics online of Stainz locos hauling fairly long trains. My own 2010 Stainz slips with four LGB passenger coaches on level dry track (all 4-wheelers). I guess I need to add some more weight. However my cheap Lionel 0-4-0 will pull twice that amount before it slips - and the Lionel weighs less and doesn't have any traction tyres! Quite mysterious.

Anyway great job with the performance comparisons.

Glen
 
actually skids are a superior method of electrical contact compared to rollers-not friction wise-but interms of conductivity-this is why commutators rubs against the armature -and

as i have a roller pick up on my mars flyer - i can tell you first hand that this results in mini arcing and resulting micro pitting to wheels-slkids are a good thing

im actually likely to fit slot car brushes which will drag lightly on thw track to my mars flyer because of the arcing (and this is not due to dirty track -if you run one in the dark on nice clean track with nice clean wheels-youll see a tiny electrical show between the wheels and track-what i surmise-being no engineer -is that solid contact eliminated the current needing to jump , as it probably does on the limited point of contact on a wheel
 
GlenF - 10/11/2009 11:06 PM

These comparisons are very useful, thanks for posting. I wish more people would contribute similar info on their own locos and experiences. It's so disappointing to put a new loco on the track only to discover that it won't pull what you wanted or expected.

Talking of which I see lots of pics online of Stainz locos hauling fairly long trains. My own 2010 Stainz slips with four LGB passenger coaches on level dry track (all 4-wheelers). I guess I need to add some more weight. However my cheap Lionel 0-4-0 will pull twice that amount before it slips - and the Lionel weighs less and doesn't have any traction tyres! Quite mysterious.

Anyway great job with the performance comparisons.

Glen
Click to expand...

Way back on GSM I did do a bit on loco tractive effort...........think it was sparked by another
member with the same interest.

Basically I did static pull tests with spring balances of all my locos.
Unfortunately all my locos are Bachmann, USAT and Aristo so could'nt test any LGB
From the static tests you can workout what sort of trains your loco can haul thru various curves and grades.

Another test I did was to see if the model loco weight was anywhere near to the 1:1 weight.

Should have pulled the thread off GSM :thinking:

As to skates.....
All my USAT locos have them and the wheels stay perfect but the Aristo without soon badly pit them.
 
spike - 11/11/2009 6:26 AM



As to skates.....
All my USAT locos have them and the wheels stay perfect but the Aristo without soon badly pit them.
Click to expand...

Mmmm .......... in principle, I have a natural dislike for skates, particularly where they are readily visible.

However, I'm rapidly coming around to the same way of thinking (rapidly - well, at least 4 years down the line :sleep: ) that the skates afford a method of keepin minor grot and oxidisation off the track which cuts down what must be a minimal amount of arcing that causes both ppitting and poor contact.

I haven't really got to the bottom of the problem. Fat Connie, with compensated drivers is no problem.

My scratchbuilt 2-6-2 with a 6-coupled mechanism that is essentially too rigid, and which can rock a little bit on poorly laid track doesn't suffer too much. Slaters wheels with stainless rims.

My Aristo C-16 chassis does suffer, and I'm not too sure about the Bachmann Mining Mogul - it had been quite good until I did something too it this season - I've given it a good clean up but not had chance to subsequently test it.

So - to skate or not? ;)

I think I'd very happily use a mechanism with skates if they weren't too visible. :D

How's that for sitting on the fence? :applause:
 
I bought an Alco LGB White Pass Diesel 2nd hand as I fancied being able to bull a long train. I have about a 1 in 30 gradient with an r1 bend at the top (just the way my garden is i'm afraid) I was a bit dispaointed it would only pull 10 bogie wagons before stopping even on clean dry rail. I did some google research and found someone who had given one a fair amount of weight. So I had it apart and siliconed some lead flashing bound in duck tape into the voids inside. It now will pull everything I own loaded with gravel etc.- it really is phenomenal. So much grunt! Sure weight is always the biggest factor. Bet if you looked into scale weight they would all be way too light out of the box.
 
Rhinochugger - 11/11/2009 9:19 AM

spike - 11/11/2009 6:26 AM



As to skates.....
All my USAT locos have them and the wheels stay perfect but the Aristo without soon badly pit them.
Click to expand...

Mmmm .......... in principle, I have a natural dislike for skates, particularly where they are readily visible.

However, I'm rapidly coming around to the same way of thinking (rapidly - well, at least 4 years down the line :sleep: ) that the skates afford a method of keepin minor grot and oxidisation off the track which cuts down what must be a minimal amount of arcing that causes both ppitting and poor contact.

I haven't really got to the bottom of the problem. Fat Connie, with compensated drivers is no problem.

My scratchbuilt 2-6-2 with a 6-coupled mechanism that is essentially too rigid, and which can rock a little bit on poorly laid track doesn't suffer too much. Slaters wheels with stainless rims.

My Aristo C-16 chassis does suffer, and I'm not too sure about the Bachmann Mining Mogul - it had been quite good until I did something too it this season - I've given it a good clean up but not had chance to subsequently test it.

So - to skate or not? ;)

I think I'd very happily use a mechanism with skates if they weren't too visible. :D

How's that for sitting on the fence? :applause:
Click to expand...

As long as it's not a spikey fence :D

Here is the USAT GP9.....spot the skates.
Ok at eye level they may be obvious but on the ground not visible :thumbup:

<img src="http://www.weathersatellite.info/gscale/grandegp9.jpg" alt="Rio Grande GP9">
 
Spike, out of interest between Bachmann, USAT and Aristo what would be your favorite manufacturer if your were to pick a steam from them which one would you go for. i dont know if you use DCC system :thumbup:
 
Stainzmeister - 11/11/2009 12:45 PM
(snip)
Most of my Stainz weigh in at 2.2 kilos - a full half kilo higher than the standard weight, so they will haul five 4 wheel coaches up a 1 in 25 gradient.
Click to expand...

Which matches my estimate of the ideal weight per motor from the tests (and, intriguingly, also the weight of the Piko BR80 as I modified it). Two different investigations and the same end point. Sounds like a result! :cool:
 
Stainzmeister - 11/11/2009 8:45 AM

That's probably me and Stockers posting the pics.
Most of my Stainz weigh in at 2.2 kilos - a full half kilo higher than the standard weight, so they will haul five 4 wheel coaches up a 1 in 25 gradient.
Click to expand...

I just weighed my Stainz and it's only 1590gms so it sounds like more weight is definitely needed.

Glen
 
nico - 11/11/2009 11:38 AM

Spike, out of interest between Bachmann, USAT and Aristo what would be your favorite manufacturer if your were to pick a steam from them which one would you go for. i dont know if you use DCC system :thumbup:
Click to expand...

No DCC here.


Nico I have Bachmann K27, Bachmann Annies and an Aristo Mikado.

Steam type....would go with the K27.

The Bachmann K27 is very good.
It has an all equalised chassis and runs extremely well on rough track.
It can also haul a reasonable load.

The Bachmann Annies are more of a pain to run on uneven track.

The Aristo Mikado is ok but again it does'nt like uneven track, bucks about
a bit. It does haul reasonably well, though.

If you want to see them in action take a look at my Youtube page.
Do a search under wxsatuser
 
tac - 11/11/2009 11:00 AM


The loco is a USA Trains GP9 in SF scheme and it was hauling four cars and a van.

We returned home 26 days later, to find the train still running round, covered with bird cr&p and sundry dirt from the many showers that had happened - it was June in UK after all.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Click to expand...

26 days and no derails :cool:
 
Can' stand the sight of skates on a loco, which is another reason I've gone to RC Battery power better looking and less drag.
 
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