LGB type 1 chip growl

[Tim Brien]

My Frank 'S' is factory chipped with the type 1 decoders. When operating it seems to have the growl associated with analogue locomotives running on DCC. Also, no matter what starting voltage set on the tender, it simply outraces the locomotive (even when using the umbilical electrical coupling). Loco is set to factory motor frequency (CV 9 = '0') 16khz on both decoders. I intend to eventually swap over to the Massoth chips.

I seem to recall the type 1 decoders were noisy. Am I halucinating?

 

[muns]

Depends on what you have been taking

 

[HBBahn]

I seem to recall the type 1 decoders were noisy. Am I halucinating?

No you're not, yes they are. And they don't have the back EMF function, so if you've got gradients, watch out! (personal experience)

 

[whatlep]

My Frank 'S' is factory chipped with the type 1 decoders. When operating it seems to have the growl associated with analogue locomotives running on DCC. Also, no matter what starting voltage set on the tender, it simply outraces the locomotive (even when using the umbilical electrical coupling). Loco is set to factory motor frequency (CV 9 = '0') 16khz on both decoders. I intend to eventually swap over to the Massoth chips.

I seem to recall the type 1 decoders were noisy. Am I halucinating?

The 55020s were/are noisy due to the frequencies used - a legacy of the original LGB MTS system being supplied by Lenz, not Massoth. They also had the characteristic you've experienced of not being "balanced" if used in multiple. As you imply, replacement by Massoth L or 55021s is the way to go. ASAP to avoid damage to the loco.

 

[Tim Brien]

Many thanks. I intend removing the type 1's and maybe chipping a couple of Stainz locomotives with them. Massoth 'LS' and 'L' will then be fitted to both Frank 'S'

 

[whatlep]

Many thanks. I intend removing the type 1's and maybe chipping a couple of Stainz locomotives with them. Massoth 'LS' and 'L' will then be fitted to both Frank 'S'

Yes, that's a good plan Tim, though do be aware that the LS does not have pins to fit into a "direct decoder" socket as the L does. The 55020s are also handy if you want to have DCC control of unpowered trailing vehicles where motor noise is not an issue (e.g. Piko railbus trailer), though you do have to remember to program them first on a motorised vehicle.

 

[Tim Brien]

I am beginning to think that a complete 'gut' install may be the way to go. I could use an 'L' plus an "S" sound decoder using the SUSI bus. The 3 watt sound could be overkill though. The tender installation, I was going to toally remove the LGB electics board as it serves no function, other than an interface with the decoder. The rear light terminals could be easily fitted to the decoder rather than the LGB 'interface' circuit board.

I see what you mean with the type 1. Basically a light decoder to avoid the motor issue.

 

[Zerogee]

I am beginning to think that a complete 'gut' install may be the way to go. I could use an 'L' plus an "S" sound decoder using the SUSI bus. The 3 watt sound could be overkill though. The tender installation, I was going to toally remove the LGB electics board as it serves no function, other than an interface with the decoder. The rear light terminals could be easily fitted to the decoder rather than the LGB 'interface' circuit board.

I see what you mean with the type 1. Basically a light decoder to avoid the motor issue.

Yep, that's the way I'd go, Tim - strip out all existing boards, go for either an L + LS or XL + XLS combo (the L + LS would be enough to handle the power, I think, but if you can get the XLS at the present good price then it might be worthwhile for the extra amp margin). Rewire all the lights and stuff straight to the new decoders. Motor/track connections will be simple plug-in jobs, because you already know the loco has 4-pin gearboxes as it's already chipped with the old decoders. You could go with two L or XL decoders plus a separate S, but that would cost more and your only gain would be the extra speaker wattage, I think.
The only thing to remember is that if the loco currently has 5volt bulbs you will need to reset the lighting voltage CV on the decoder(s) BEFORE you put full track power through it - or you could replace the 5v bulbs with 24v ones while you've got it all apart.

Jon.

 

[Tim Brien]

Well, once I understood exactly what CV 2 was, I was able to synch the twin drives on the Frank 'S' quite well (two off type 1 decoders). I mistakenly believed that 'starting voltage' was the delayed voltage value at which drive was initiated. CV 2 value is the percentage value of voltage at step 1 in the speed step. Thus a lower CV 2 value will slow down a drive at step 1, as compared to a drive with a higher CV 2 value. I had to read the Massoth 'LS' manual to find that out. I cannot recall reading it in the Massoth 'L' manual.

 

[Tony Walsham]

Tim,
16 KHz is out of the audible range of the human ear for most people.
A growl is usually a frequency of about 100 Hz. Above that the pitch changes to a hum, then a whine and then a whistle before we can no longer hear it.

My guess is that if the motor is growling it is set to a low frequency such as 100 Hz or thereabouts.

 

[Tim Brien]

Tony,
well I am now immersed in a very steep learning curve. The loco is set to the factory default CV 9 value '0'. Possible the sound I was hearing was the two motors fighting each other as the factory setting, as received, was inverse to what it should have been, so the tender was fighting the loco as it pushed it along.