LGB track cleaning loco wear indication

Airbuspilot

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We have an LGB track cleaning loco (red) I have never been impressed by it when i have sent it around the track. The track has not been used for some time as it was much too hot but we now need a major cleaning operation and i would like to use the loco.

My first question is how do I know when the cleaning wheels need replacement? When I checked them they appear to be a softish foam material? There are no obvious threads around the disk axles as far as I can see.

I have read through several previous posts, someone suggested reversing the cleaner drive motor to stop the jumping up and down when driving. Is this a good idea?

Robin
 

PhilP

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Ah, well...
There are those who say the motor should help drag the loco round the track. But this throws all the carp under the loco.
Then there are those who say the cleaning wheels should rotate backwards, to throw the carp out of the front..

Does the variable speed control for the cleaning motor work on your loco?

Personally, I prefer to throw the muck away from the loco forwards, and that is how I have set them up, whenever I have worked on them..
I also suggest going round with a brush, or leaf blower, before running the track-cleaner..
The cleaner is designed to 'polish' the railhead, not clear leaves, bird-lime, twigs, etc.

PhilP
 

Gizzy

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The LGB Track Cleaning Loco (TCL) will not clean really tarnished track unless you do several passes.

It's best to use a track cleaning rubber first, then use the TCL occasionally to keep the track clean.

I find mine (DCC) and a friend's one work best at speed step 10 or 11 on my Massoth navigator....
 

stevedenver

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I have been using my cleaning loco many many years now. Like 20, only changed the tires/wheels once, because the black plastic wheel cracked at the axel hole. The cleaning tire material, imho, is more akin to an ink eraser, hard and impregnated with fine grit.

it is critical to run the cleaning wheels at top speed, and the loco more slowly. Mine is analog. I use the roof potentiometer to make the loco move very slowly while the track voltage is 20v plus, making the cleaning wheels spin furiously, with an annoying ‘Star Wars ty-fighter-like whine’. (On my yellow analog version, when in cleaning mode, the cleaning wheels are directly connected to track voltage. This means, the track voltage should be 20v+, in order to really get them spinning, ‘normal’ v, eg 5-10 v, and they are very slow. The loco speed is regulated by the roof mounted potentiometer, under a small black plastic cap). Btw, the analog version has an internal cab switch which engages/disengages the roof speed control/ flashy roof lights.

i know nothing about any digital version, but, the speeds i suggest would still apply, however achieved.
if the cleaning wheels arent flying, it wont clean worth a jot.

if you’ve barely used yours, i cant imagine the cleaning wheels need to be replaced.
there is a video on how to replace the wheels. Imho, while the loco was dirty, the tires looked perfectly fine to me. Plenty of life left. Obviously, youll do no harm if you replace yours. Yes, they ‘smooth out’ and arent as abrasive as when new, but they are still effective, not unlike sandpaper after a use or 2.

i have tried ‘pulling’ cleaning wheels, and returned to factory standard. To throw the dust forward rather than into the cowel.

i find both to be about the same effectiveness. Unless,…….the track is wet, then front wheel drive is helpfu.

bouncing, it seems, may be from new cleaning tires being slightly out of round. I use mine anyway, they seem to eventually settle.

id say, use the tires until they are very thin. Or chipped, or develop a groove. Or the black plastic flanges have an issue.
Like the red lgb cleaning block, they last a long time. Occasionally cleaning the brass dust with detergent and toothbrush will restore maximum abrasion. I rarely do this.

i run mine in mid summer heat, direct sun on the rails, very very hot , no issues.

as gizzy sagely observes, it can take several passes to become shiny. If black, many passes.
typically, for me 1-2 passes, at slowest speed, does the trick. Track will have striating, no big deal. Effective, but not glistening.

i use it at least weekly, always after a rain, always before running any loco without skates (to reduce micro arcing and pitting). I do not let the track get really dark. If it does, the solution is the red block, imho.

as a practical matter, if i use the red cleaning block, one pass with a\elbow grease does more than 5 passes, and more evenly and thoroughly.

the cleaning tires last a very long time.
1 look for tiny black nylon ‘threads’ from the flange wrapping around the cleaning axel, and remove, (most frequently with fresh new plastic wheel flanges);you know this,
2 blow out the dust, after each use, (do not inhale the stuff); i deep clean yearly , ie disassemble, wash, pita)
3 do not add weight to the cowel to increase downward pressure on the cleaning wheels, as youll damage the cleaning apparatus sooner or later, so i have read.
4 never leave it unattended. Mine never derails, unless im inattentive. It will , in short time, place a divot on the rail if it stalls.
 
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Airbuspilot

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Thanks for the very comprehensive answers. Like Steve said, the red cleaning block is excellent but with a very large amount of track it is time consuming and hard work when there is a loco available which should do the job. I find that if used correctly the rubber is so good the loco isn’t needed.

When we are running from about now the track seems to stay reasonably clean and an occasional rub down with the red block is enough. From July through to September its too hot for us humans outside and we have no shade so by now the track is really black and needs lots of elbow grease.

From your comments it would seem that the cleaning wheels are in good condition so I will leave them alone.

The layout is DCC and while I have a good basic knowledge I am still working my way up the learning curve. I can read and write basic CV’s but programming functions is beyond me at the moment. I assumed the wheel speed was preset by LGB, I had no idea it could be varied, presumably by changing CV‘s? If so can you tell me which ones?

Our base station is ZIMO MX10 with MX 32 FU hand set.

Robin
 

PhilP

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Depending on the model:
Examine the exhaust (just in front of the cab) there is a manual speed control for the cleaning motor. - Under DCC, I believe you can only turn the cleaning motor off/on.

If I did a conversion, I usually gave an option to turn the alternate flashing lights on, without the cleaning motor running.

PhilP
 

Gizzy

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Depending on the model:
Examine the exhaust (just in front of the cab) there is a manual speed control for the cleaning motor. - Under DCC, I believe you can only turn the cleaning motor off/on.

If I did a conversion, I usually gave an option to turn the alternate flashing lights on, without the cleaning motor running.

PhilP
I believe the speed control works on mine. F1 turns on the cleaning motor when going forwards only....

thumbnail_20200802_170159.jpg
 
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Airbuspilot

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Thanks Phil, I will look for a switch when I have the next visit to the layout.

The cleaning wheels are operated by selecting F1 and in forward direction only like yours, I assume this is manufactures standard setup. I don’t see any method of controlling speed just on / off.

Robin
 

Gizzy

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Thanks Phil, I will look for a switch when I have the next visit to the layout.

The cleaning wheels are operated by selecting F1 and in forward direction only like yours, I assume this is manufactures standard setup. I don’t see any method of controlling speed just on / off.

Robin
On the cab roof, opposite the head light, is a round knob about 13 mm in diameter. looks like an exhaust, but is actually the cleaning motor speed control. Might be worth checking if this works on your TCL Robin, although as Philp mentioned, it might not be connected on a DCC loco....
 

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There's no speed control of the cleaning motor in DCC.......it's a constant speed no matter how fast you operate the locomotive.

I have two of the LGB track cleaning locomotives, the last yellow version with the onboard DCC decoder, and the first red version with the onboard decoder. I've found them very reliable but I sometimes run one twice in one direction and then turn it around and run it in the opposite direction to clean really dirty track on my garden railway.
 
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dunnyrail

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There's no speed control of the cleaning motor in DCC.......it's a constant speed no matter how fast you operate the locomotive.

I have two of the LGB track cleaning locomotives, the last yellow version with the onboard DCC decoder, and the first red version with the onboard decoder. I've found them very reliable but I sometimes run one twice in one direction and then turn it around and run it in the opposite direction to clean really dirty track on my garden railway.
Erm if you have 2 why not couple then back to back with one having the forward reverse swopped and both on the same CV1 registration. Then you can run both ways with them coupled without having to lift one off the rails. One cleans one way the other coming back.
 

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It's taken me a couple of days to get to the railway, managed today and placed the track cleaner on the programming track. The loco was purchased new, probably about 3 years ago, it has a Massoth decoder which I assume was factory fitted.

I have just seen the post by Thomas so the question of speed may be answered.

Gizzy is correct there is a control knob on the roof but it isn't connected to anything, it rotates continuously in both directions.

I now have the document for the Loco, which states the speed of the grinding wheel is controlled by CV 141. I can read and write to all CV's as normal but not to CV 141, the book states factory set at 225 but it reads 54 and I cannot change it. There is a note stating that CV's 116 - 143 are for Mapping and 141 sits within this range, I cannot change CV's within this range either.

My knowledge of DCC is improving but I am still at the early stages, I understand the basics but functions and function mapping are beyond my current understanding.

If speed is set by the factory it seems strange that they state it can be controlled by CV 141?

Robin
 

LGB333

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It's taken me a couple of days to get to the railway, managed today and placed the track cleaner on the programming track. The loco was purchased new, probably about 3 years ago, it has a Massoth decoder which I assume was factory fitted.

I have just seen the post by Thomas so the question of speed may be answered.

Gizzy is correct there is a control knob on the roof but it isn't connected to anything, it rotates continuously in both directions.

I now have the document for the Loco, which states the speed of the grinding wheel is controlled by CV 141. I can read and write to all CV's as normal but not to CV 141, the book states factory set at 225 but it reads 54 and I cannot change it. There is a note stating that CV's 116 - 143 are for Mapping and 141 sits within this range, I cannot change CV's within this range either.

My knowledge of DCC is improving but I am still at the early stages, I understand the basics but functions and function mapping are beyond my current understanding.

If speed is set by the factory it seems strange that they state it can be controlled by CV 141?

Robin
Robin - The MSD3 mfx/dcc/dc onboard decoders that Marklin started installing into their LGB products has a lot of built-in controls that limit hobbyist from messing with them. Some of us assume because the Germans don't want to have to deal with warranty claims caused especially from us American hobbyists trying to make adjustments to the locomotives. As you know, Massoth made all the LGB electronics and sound systems prior to that for the original LGB company that went out of business in 2006 and up to 2014 for Marklin. For example, on the factory-installed MSD3 sound decoders, the decoders are "locked" so that hobbyists can not install a new sound file from the Marklin sound library. If you want to install a different sound file, you must purchase the LGB 55029 mfx/dcc/dc Retrofit Decoder Kit and then you can load any sound file on. I suspect the same reason applies to the non-adjustable CV141 you mention for the Track Cleaning Locomotives.
 
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LGB333

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Erm if you have 2 why not couple then back to back with one having the forward reverse swopped and both on the same CV1 registration. Then you can run both ways with them coupled without having to lift one off the rails. One cleans one way the other coming back.
Interesting suggestion but I prefer to leave the motion of the cleaning locomotive's cleaning motors as set by the factory. I feel there's more wear and tear on the track rails by setting the cleaning motor in the forward direction, and even the original LGB company had designed them to work that way. I do, however, operate both cleaning locomotives on my track at the same time since I have two main lines and 18 switched sidings in my railyard. And it's no biggie to pick up the locomotives and reverse their directions after a bit.
 

Airbuspilot

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Robin - The MSD3 mfx/dcc/dc onboard decoders that Marklin started installing into their LGB products has a lot of built-in controls that limit hobbyist from messing with them. Some of us assume because the Germans don't want to have to deal with warranty claims caused especially from us American hobbyists trying to make adjustments to the locomotives. As you know, Massoth made all the LGB electronics and sound systems prior to that for the original LGB company that went out of business in 2006 and up to 2014 for Marklin. For example, on the factory-installed MSD3 sound decoders, the decoders are "locked" so that hobbyists can not install a new sound file from the Marklin sound library. If you want to install a different sound file, you must purchase the LGB 55029 mfx/dcc/dc Retrofit Decoder Kit and then you can load any sound file on. I suspect the same reason applies to the non-adjustable CV141 you mention for the Track Cleaning Locomotives.
Thanks for this information Thomas, I find with all things DCC just when I think I understand what I’m doing something strange happens and I don’t know the reason why.

The track cleaner does work but I have never been overly impressed, admittedly I have limited its use to avoid damaging the track. As you go around three times I will give that a go and see what happens.

Thanks to everyone for your inputs.

Robin
 

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We have the latest Track Cleaning Loco (LGB 21671) [The 'orange' one] with the mfx decoder. Cleaning mode is F27 and forward only. The cleaning wheels spin full whack in the opposite direction.

Our approach to cleaning has been a track cleaning block at the initial placement and then let it run round. We run every couple of weeks and most times the TLC isn't required. For the longest hiatuses, I've found a once-round has been fine. I cannot imagine our garden railway without it.

I'm curious, Robin, can you explain more about why you weren't impressed by it?

Curtis
 
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Airbuspilot

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Hi Curtis

Probably my expectation for the track cleaner, the first time I tried to run it kept stalling on me as the track wasn’t clean enough for the electrical pickup, which didn’t impress. I asked for advice from this site and was recommended the LGB red cleaning block which works very well giving a nice shinny surface but with some effort.

I think I need to have some patience and let it do its thing, several times if necessary. Quick once round with the block then round several times with the track cleaner, then once a month ish.

Robin
 
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LGB333

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Hi Curtis

Probably my expectation for the track cleaner, the first time I tried to run it kept stalling on me as the track wasn’t clean enough for the electrical pickup, which didn’t impress. I asked for advice from this site and was recommended the LGB red cleaning block which works very well giving a nice shinny surface but with some effort.

I think I need to have some patience and let it do its thing, several times if necessary. Quick once round with the block then round several times with the track cleaner, then once a month ish.

Robin
I had some stalling on the older LGB Track Cleaner locomotive going through faulty track switches using DCC.......larger locomotives such as a F7A or Uintah or Mogul have the track power pickup wheels and slider shoes more spread apart so there's no problem. The solution for the Track Cleaner: Install a Massoth Maxi PowerCap to the circuit board. Three years ago Massoth Germany provided me the diagram how to do it and now the Track Clean keeps on chugging right through faulty track switches! Attached is the diagram how to connect it.......you can squeeze the components into the cab fairly well hidden. It would also solve your issue of it stalling on dirty track.
 

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Airbuspilot

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I had some stalling on the older LGB Track Cleaner locomotive going through faulty track switches using DCC.......larger locomotives such as a F7A or Uintah or Mogul have the track power pickup wheels and slider shoes more spread apart so there's no problem. The solution for the Track Cleaner: Install a Massoth Maxi PowerCap to the circuit board. Three years ago Massoth Germany provided me the diagram how to do it and now the Track Clean keeps on chugging right through faulty track switches! Attached is the diagram how to connect it.......you can squeeze the components into the cab fairly well hidden. It would also solve your issue of it stalling on dirty track.
Thanks for the suggestion, its a good idea. I will do some research.
Robin
 

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I use a custom build track cleaning locomotive build by R. Kleinsteuber ( Dutch LGB trains : Website www.dejachtkamer.com choose menu: Locomotieven spoor-G) that has a rotating brush at the front and a vibrating minitool sand paper machine in the middle of the two drives.
I can lift the sandpaper when it is not necessary to used.
Normally i run the cleaner without the sandpaper machine each morning after rain in order to swipe of all the sand particles.(my track is at ground level.
When not having used the track for a long period i have to use the brush and the sand papermachine in two rounds along my track.
I case of heavy corroded track, that occurs most time under trees or concentrated rain drop off points, i use a abrasive sponge from FESTOOL mounted on a flat pad on a long stick.
The sponge info: 98 x 120 x 13 mm ; two sided ; Festool Granat 220 ; No 201114.
Two swipes with this sponge, wet or dry, will do the heavy corrosion job.

Gerard
 

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