LGB three way point: Only R1?

[Greg Elmassian]

So the 1235/12350 was 660 / 950 radii... and the 12360 is 600 mm on both?

so on the 12350 r2/r3 indicates the number of degrees in a circle of track, not the curvature of the turnout, which is really a R1 / R2+

and on the 12360 apparently even though the length is the same degrees of an R3 curve, the curvature of the turnout is R1 on both routes.

The reason I am beating this to death is that people see R2 or R3 applied to this switch and think, oh great, I can get a 3 way switch that matches my R3 curves, and then their loco derails because the curvature of the points themselves is R1....

Maybe in the old days when everyone had trains that could run on R1 curves this bias towards the degrees of a circle of track for track planning made sense.

Nowadays, few people buy only locos that can handle R1 curves... and newcomers seem to always buy a loco too big for their track ha ha..

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

So I have created mayhem again! But the older 3 way is different to the R1 current one and matches r3 geometry. Plus better Radius which I believe is what Henri was looking for QED. Well said on the numbers just quoted 65 1057, great to have your handle as a super Dampf.

 

[korm kormsen]

trying to apply logic to the problem in question.
if a R1 curve ends in an 22.5 angle from the straight, it must be only three quarters of the length of a normal 300mm R1 curve.
reading, that the entire turnout shall have a length of 440mm, what i see in the pics does not have a right side (the shorter one), that is only half the length of the straight.

somewhere, gentlemen, you either got wrong informations, or erronius reasoning.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Think of it this way...

Place a length of R3 over he turnout, and it will start, finish, and have the same angle. In other words, throw away the turnout and it can be replaced by the R3 (not that you want to throw the turnout away).

Now, here is the rub, the turnout is not circular throughout the curved road. There are straight bits at each end of the curve. That effectively means that the 'tangent length'* of the curve is shorter, and to achieve the same angle, the radius has to be sharper.

* technical term for curve geometry.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I'm moving to New Zealand, there be train people there...

 

[dunnyrail]

Thinking, geometry and drastic statements about NZ. Pretty tricky concepts at this time of the morning. Will think about all 3 some more when I have woken up, perhaps after my Coffee in Nero at around 1000 am.

 

[Gizzy]

I have one of the earlier LGB 1235 3 way points, which I brought from Evil Buy, not realising that it was R3 22.5 deg!

I also have several of the later 1236/12360 R1 versions in my yard....

 

[Zerogee]

I have one of the earlier LGB 1235 3 way points, which I brought from Evil Buy, not realising that it was R3 22.5 deg!

.............

Did you change the old motors, Giz, either for newer ones or manual switches?

Jon.

 

[Gizzy]

In the past it has been fitted with both manual switches and EPL drives Jon dependant on where I have used it. On my old layout, it was used with manual switches as can be seen in the photograph below.

It will be fitted with EPL drives on the railway I am building at the moment....

 

[Gizzy]

BTW, I emailed PIKO about the R1 Double Slip that they used to have on their website, but it appears that they are no longer going to produce it.

It might be the same for the 3 Way Point.

I can't see either of these track pieces on this website....

https://www.piko-america.com/collections/g-scale-g-track?page=1

 

[stockers]

Think of it this way...

Place a length of R3 over he turnout, and it will start, finish, and have the same angle. In other words, throw away the turnout and it can be replaced by the R3 (not that you want to throw the turnout away).

Now, here is the rub, the turnout is not circular throughout the curved road. There are straight bits at each end of the curve. That effectively means that the 'tangent length'* of the curve is shorter, and to achieve the same angle, the radius has to be sharper.

* technical term for curve geometry.

Exactly.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Double slips seem to be one of the most problematic designs ever. I tried them in Z scale, might as well have just filled the space between the rails flush and let the loco skate like a car on ice.

Greg

 

[maxi-model]

Ah, the wonderous double slip.......



My GRS example, made from LGB code 332 rail. Designed to work with their, off the shelf, 6 ft points or LGB R5's. Saw one on another line and just had to incorporate one into my one. Max

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Double slips seem to be one of the most problematic designs ever. I tried them in Z scale, might as well have just filled the space between the rails flush and let the loco skate like a car on ice.

Greg

You want to try them in 1:1 scale ! The 'flatter' the angle, the more problems you get, that's why we gave up on 1 in 9's and flatter, and stuck to 1 in 7½ (Our standard 'R1').

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Thinking, geometry and drastic statements about NZ. Pretty tricky concepts at this time of the morning. Will think about all 3 some more when I have woken up, perhaps after my Coffee in Nero at around 1000 am.

....keep taking the pills. Remember, it was the Poms that taught us everything we have forgotten.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

I'm moving to New Zealand, there be train people there...

Bring money.........(and your trains).

 

[dunnyrail]

Bring money.........(and your trains).

If he is going to be meeting you guys some meat for Barbies and Cake would be appropriate as well. Oh not forgetting some Ice Cold stuff.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

If he is going to be meeting you guys some meat for Barbies and Cake would be appropriate as well. Oh not forgetting some Ice Cold stuff.

What do you think the money is for?

 

[Gavin Sowry]

What do you think the money is for?

Somehow, I think the Americans know how to barbie. When I was once there, I went into a meat shop with my B in L (he was local), picked out a big slab of deadstock
(can't call it livestock, can we). dropped it on the counter and told the butcher to chop it up into 1 inch thick steaks. 35 minutes on the BBQ, along with 'very fresh' cob corn (as in picked straight before cooking), one of the best BBQ feeds I've ever had. Washed down with a copious serving of Coors (had to be that, goes with the LGB reefer I picked up).

 

[dunnyrail]

Somehow, I think the Americans know how to barbie. When I was once there, I went into a meat shop with my B in L (he was local), picked out a big slab of deadstock
(can't call it livestock, can we). dropped it on the counter and told the butcher to chop it up into 1 inch thick steaks. 35 minutes on the BBQ, along with 'very fresh' cob corn (as in picked straight before cooking), one of the best BBQ feeds I've ever had. Washed down with a copious serving of Coors (had to be that, goes with the LGB reefer I picked up).

Yum yum, well except for the Coors stuff. MGD is my prefered US bottled beer after Micro Brew real ales. Did try a Home Brew Pub in downtown Aukland when their in 1988 but it was so cold I could nit even get the taste of it. You guys in NZ do like your beer cold brrrrrrr.