lgb points drifting

[nicebutdim]

Hi, I need some help with my electric points. After some testing I found bit of a problem with the blades wondering and causing derailmants. The manually operated points don't suffer with this as there is the springs to keep the blades one way or the other, but there is nothing to keep the points 'locked' on my electric ones. Sometimes after only 3 or 4 passes the points begin to shift, letting the wheels drop on either side. Is there something missing from my points or is this a common problem?
Many thanks, Tim

 

[whatlep]

Sometimes after only 3 or 4 passes the points begin to shift, letting the wheels drop on either side. Is there something missing from my points or is this a common problem?
Many thanks, Tim

If you mean trailing through the points (pushing the blades over as the train passes) leaves the blades uncertainly set, then yes, it's a characteristic of LGB electric points in my experience. I've not had the problem sith trains operating in the facing direction.

The only fix I've found is to wire the motor up and operate them positively after each train passes, or change to Piko points. They have an over-centre spring which holds the blades in position.

 

[nicebutdim]

It's travelling with the facing direction when the problem arises, I was looking at the over centre springs and possibly making my own, but I'm not sure the motors would have enough strength to overcome that too. Or attach another motor I guess....hmmmm

 

[Cliff George]

Just a thought, could you not fit a manual switch on the other side from the point motor? The spring in the manual switch would keep the blades in position? Not something I've tried myself but I would have thought it would work.

 

[nicebutdim]

Just a thought, could you not fit a manual switch on the other side from the point motor? The spring in the manual switch would keep the blades in position? Not something I've tried myself but I would have thought it would work.

I thought of that too, but the manual switch works by the external 'lever' being thrown, pushing the spring across and then changing the points, if you just pull the blades over the point springs back to it's original position. But you have given me the idea of seeing if the manual control can be modified to work as an over centre spring.

 

[stevelewis]

Piko's over centre spring works well in manual mode But I am finding that when used with LGB electric point motors closure of the switch blade is not always positve ON ONE SIDE ONLY, this varies from point to point as to which blade is affected, my guess was the over centre spring tends to be more 'positive' in one direction, this phenonenom doesnt seem to show in manual mode though.

My solution was to remove the over centre spring from the PIKO points and the problem was solved!
Now to the real subject of the thread!!:--

with reference to the original query:................................. make sure that your point motors are level that is in the same 'plane ' as the points, I used to have similar problems, but I dont experience it now.

If the motor is not level there is more resistance to the tie bar/ point motor mechanism movement.

 

[nicebutdim]

I see your point, (geddit?) the motor seems to throw the point fully, it's after, as the blades seem to float and move almost too easily. But now you have given me another idea of bringing in some minimal friction to hold the point in position. Now I'm sitting here thinking, 'why didn't I think of that earlier'. Oh dear....

 

[stevelewis]

Theres a lot of variables in G scale, over the years they become apparent!! ( I have been in g for quite a while now my first loco a U class cost me just £54 no dicount brand new so you can work out when that was perhaps!!))

For some time on my very first line I could not understand why I got problems on a section of track which crossed a path, then it dawned on me the track had been CONCRETED in place, and as a result the track sections could not move and as a result the lack of a slight bit of movement caused the rail joiners to become corroded inside & hence the current could not flow through them well!!

A lot of people do post on here to say that they have point problems, but I do beleive that a lot of the problems could easily be sorted out by checking the levels, making sure the point itself is not slanting one way or the other and as I suggested before checking the point motor is level with the point, (actually the hand operated levers need to be level as well to make them work correctly!!)

 

[stevedenver]

wow Steve, that U class must've been sold to you by the Templars at that price! (first ship load of hoarded goods out of Jerusalem eh) 

agree about being level, clean, lubricated with graphite on the slider plate and a touch of oil at the point hinges-

but the simple fact is the points dont lock, and vibration may cause them to shift

 

[dutchelm]

Normally the magnetism in the motor holds the point blades one side or the other. I have never known the blades to drift out of line.
Is this only happening in one direction? It may be that the point motor is not centred correctly. It is important with LGB point motors that they have equal movement on each side.

 

[pugwash]

Sorry boys but it's dead easy. You need more jip. I had the same problem and the true blue LGB 521750 kick-up-the-bum unit did it. No more probbies except one, which took me ages to get, one electric point operating erraticly. WD40, uncouth words, sewing machine oil and nothing worked. I got it eventually, the top of the casing was too tight stopping the mechanics from operating. Doh

 

[stevelewis]

I am a great believer in WD-40 BUT not on LGB point motors OK it does what it is supposed to do with the motors but it also attracts dust & grit which eventually inhibits smooth throw bar movement!

As far as the top of the casing being too tight I have never exprienced this problem, but would say that by loosening the casing there is a posibility that the risk of more dampness getting inside and causing further problems

 

[KeithT]

These were the same problems I experienced with LGB R3s. I tried levelling and re-levellenig to no avail.
On one occassion my Saxon "did the splits" with each bogie going a different way!:wits:
The solution for me was to change to Piko.

 

[minimans]

As has been suggested already if the wheels are "picking the point" it's because it .........One, didn't throw all the way the last time it was changed......... Two the throw bar is not centered in the switch machine. Three the switch machine needs a good clean out!! Four the point is not level or twisted.

Fix for Item one is as already stated you need more OOmph to the switch machine 24V @5 amps is what I use..........No problems and no burnout either.

Number two Adjust the throw bar in the switch machine you should feel the magnet pushing the point open/closed equally both ways.

Number three obviously give it a clean out when you check the adjustment!! WD 40 works great for this.

Number four level out the point AND the approach rails in all directions.

I've been using LGB R3 points for 20 odd years and in all that time I've only had a couple of occasions where they have been a problem one was I put one on a climbing turn ...........not very bright...........and I had one that warped and the frog became a hump!! Before I started tearing up the railway last month I had 17R3's and two R5's all electrically controlled and all rarely maintained but once you cleaned the ballast out of the point rails and gave the switch machines a good dowsing in WD40 they ALWAYS worked. So I am at a loss to understand how they seem to have got such a bad reputation...........................Paul...............

 

[nicebutdim]

Thanks for all your help guys, little worried now as I'm not feeling any pull from the magnets within the motor in either direction, you can place the tie bar almost anywhere and it stays there. The motors certainly throw quite well, but I think I'll upgrade the power anywhere as only running 18v. I gave the motors a good clean when I took ownership as they were pretty manky and had a few spider nests within them, but I will give them another strip and check. The armature has a plastic tab on it, does that face up or down in relation to the motor case?

 

[nicebutdim]

Sorry boys but it's dead easy. You need more jip. I had the same problem and the true blue LGB 521750 kick-up-the-bum unit did it.

What is LGB 521750? I've had a search and can't find anything relating to that number?

 

[pugwash]

Sorry, I used the old number. It's this, solved an awfull lot of my points laziness:

http://www.bigtrainworld.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=34&products_id=20914 < Link To http://www.bigtrainworld....&products_id=20914

I think Massoth and Gaugemaster do similar items, but as I use LGB switch boxes and this simply fits on the end it's the one I went for. Fit & forget.

 

[minimans]

Thanks for all your help guys, little worried now as I'm not feeling any pull from the magnets within the motor in either direction, you can place the tie bar almost anywhere and it stays there. The motors certainly throw quite well, but I think I'll upgrade the power anywhere as only running 18v. I gave the motors a good clean when I took ownership as they were pretty manky and had a few spider nests within them, but I will give them another strip and check. The armature has a plastic tab on it, does that face up or down in relation to the motor case?

The little tit on the armature is the centre point it should line up with the centre of the throw bar. once you have it centred you should feel an equal resistance to move away from it's At rest position from both sides/direction. we never asked but are your switch machines of the later type? ie two wires not three????

The photo's show the 'Tit' at the centre position at the screw diver tip and the throw bar in the correct position.

 

[themole]

Some of the Hungarian points had quality control problems(lack of!!!) I had such problems (at the time I posted info on the old GSM web pages) Rebuilt the two offending points all now work OK.Never had problems with the old LGB points (first design 1968-9) or the second. Like Steve, I'm an old hand at this game, my first set was with aluminium track and growler Stainz. Alyn:wave:

 

[nicebutdim]

I have the later type motors with two wires, innards are identical to your pics above. I'll give them a rebuild as per your description, and keep an eye out for the power booster too. It's just too hot out there at the moment and I may be in danger of burns from red hot rails!!! I'm begining to wonder if the motors have been damaged before my ownership, if so I may have to look for replacements. All fun though.