LGB Mogul Tender Compatibility as to Factory installed Sound Units

R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
Hi, again! I am currently considering purchasing a tender with sound for my LGB 23191 mogul,which of course, has no sound. It looks exactly like the tender that came with my mogul,but I've read that there are issues of incompatibility between the LGB moguls concerning the various tenders. The one that I'm considering has the same 6 wire flat connection that is on my mogul, so I know that it can be hooked up. So, what are the compatibility issues and is buying this tender a good idea considering those issues?Are they in the locomotive ? The tender? Or both? Also, I would be gutting this tender and trying to transfer the sound unit to the 23191's tender. Will that help? The seller doesn't have any info as to which model mogul this tender came from listed.
Thanks in advance!
Andrew
 
Last edited:
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,280
112
Tamworth, Staffs.
You don't say whether you are DC or DCC?

If the Mogul was originally analogue, and has been converted to digital, all bets could be off. - It would depend who/how the conversion was done, and where the decoder(s) were fitted. - There may be two decoders, if the tender is motorised.
Another problem you nay have (if the loco is digital) is that the functions of the connections between the loco and tender may have been altered.
 
R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
I don't know if this will help, but my loco and tender were sold to me a couple of months ago as "New old stock". The sticker on the bottom decodes to 02/2000 as the build date. It came with a built in factory MTS decoder, so I'm fairly certain that mine, at least, hasn't been altered. It was brand new in appearance with no signs of wheel wear.The tender I'm looking at is another story. It has factory sound according to the seller, but I'm worried that it might not work with my loco due to the compatibility issues that I've read about between the various incarnations of the LGB mogul over the decades. It's so confusing! I don't want to "waste" my money on this tender, but then again, I can't afford to spend $200.00 on the LGB American Steam module and the sound trigger that mounts on the tender truck. The tender is at less than $60.00 right, and represents a significant savings,although it is used and carries no factory warranty. Would you take a chance on the used one, or just wait and buy the module/other sound option?
Thanks!
Andrew
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,280
112
Tamworth, Staffs.
Personally, I would probably buy the tender. - But it would depend on condition.
AND I have the knowledge etc. to sort out any problems.

The tender 'should' also have a date sticker?

Does your Mogul's tender have a 'model number' on the motor block? - It should match the number on your loco, 23191. Though this is not always the case.

If the 'new' tender has a date-code, and a model number, that would help.
 
R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
No. None of that. It's just a standard tender with a board and several connections inside. THere's no visible date code on either. The one I'm thinking about is Colorado and Southern #6 if that helps.
Thanks !
Andrew
 
R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
Ok. The tender didn't pan out. It was on Ebay and went over my current budget. Does anyone know if this sound unit(taken out of a 2319S mogul is compatible with the 23191 mogul? I can get the sound trigger for the tender on onlytrains.com for $17.99 plus shipping.
Thanks!
Andrew
 
D

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
194
2
Eastern MA
The original post states a 5 wire cable. LGB only made 1 mogul with this cable and it used the 69232 style tender , however it was an oil version, not coal.
All, other sound moguls had a 6 wire cable when sound equipped. And there are the old analog horrible sound units (these use a 9 volt batery). Then came the digital sound units in the tender with super cap storage for low voltage.
Next was the on board decoders for dc and DCC operation and the sound card was in the engine under the onboard decoder. Tender only had track power/light/speaker, no electronics.

Note that if a tender had sound there was a dual reed sensor module mounted under the tender front truck.'
If sound unit is in the engine, the sensor was at the rear of the rear axle.

All moguls had the speed sensor on the rear axle!!.
 
R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
Thanks for the info! I made a mistake. It's actually a 6 wire cable. I fixed my OP.I've been thinking about buying and installing a Phoenix sound card in the tender.I'm not sure which Phoenix board I would need for this unit. It was made in the year 2000. It has power pickups in the tender and the MTS decoder is also in the tender. I have one loco with a Phoenix sound card. I didn't install the card in it as I bought the train used on Ebay a couple of years ago ,and much to my surprise(and apparently the sellers as well since the listing didn't mention anything about there being a sound card installed in the tender) it had high quality sound! So I don't know much about after market sound cards. The P8 looks like a good fit, but I'm uncertain if it will work as it requires constant power.Also, it doesn't come with a speaker.The other card mentioned was the PB17. That one comes with its' own speaker, battery , and charging system,but it is too pricey for my taste and budget. The other option is the LGB #65001 American Steam module with the sound trigger installed in the tender trucks.That comes in at just under $200.00 on onlytrains.com, and seems like the best option to me, although the fact that this loco doesn't have a chuff sensor installed in it is a definite drawback. I've got a lot to think about before I decide how to go on this.
 
Last edited:
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,280
112
Tamworth, Staffs.
If you buy a Phoenix:
You will need it to have the sounds pre-loaded, and probably setup for you. - You need a Phoenix programming module to do this.

The LGB 65001 is a very basic unit, with very 'basic' sound. - IMHO, not worth $200! :eek:

Whilst 'chuff' will not be totally in-sync. (without a sensor) I defy you to be able to tell this from six feet away from the loco! - Unless you get the settings very wrong.

Personally, if you are DC, and have heard a Phoenix, anything else will be less-worthy. :nerd:
 
R

RkyGriz

Registered
13 Feb 2019
44
7
56
Silver Springs, Nevada
I do have a Phoenix in my Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0. It sounds amazing. Will the P8 board work with this without other modifications?
Thanks!